I use a red russian strop with the yellow tube dressing for the leather side.what is the best for the linen side? recomendations and suggestions appreciated thx...
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I use a red russian strop with the yellow tube dressing for the leather side.what is the best for the linen side? recomendations and suggestions appreciated thx...
You may apply an absolute minimum amount of white Dovo paste on your linen side and you would be well advised to note that many of us recommend using no paste on your strops.
After a proper honing, 60 to 100 laps on your leather strop is a good idea and after you have shaved with that edge, 60 to 100 laps on your linen side followed by 60 to 100 laps on your leather side is acceptable.
Paste on your hanging strops will not necessarily improve your razor edge. Barbers have historically used only a minimum of white paste on their linen side and only a minimum of Dovo black paste on the leather side and many have opted for no paste which is what most of us would probably recommend.
I say, keep it clean, no paste.............
Pasted strops usually refer to pasted flatbed strops and they are used as a finish strop for a freshly honed razor. Other members can advise you about pasted flatbed strops.
:soapbox:
+1 with Jerry. I don't use any pastes on my daily strop. I have a flatbed with chrom-ox, a paddle with diamond pastes and a hanging felt with diamond spray. I only use the pastes once in awhile ....but that is just me, others have their own routines and mine are subject to change. :)
There you have it as the British say!!
A pasted strop is reserved for a freshly honed razor edge and a clean, unpasted strop is reserved for an edge dressing in between shaves, period.
What a beautifully simple rule!!!
K.I.S.S.
I'll bet Jimmy feels much the same way................!!!
thanks 4 the help, ya really dont learn a whole lot about honing and stropping in barber college.
In counterpoint, let me say that I completely disagree with the above two gentlemen.
I put Dovo white on my canvas strop, and I laid it on thick enough to fill in the weave (which is what it is designed to do).
http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...rop-pasted.jpg
It has a very mild abrasive quality, far less than that of Cromox, and daily use is not only allowed, but strongly encoraged! Daily use of the Dovo white keeps your razors in top form.
Here's a thread with more opinions on the matter.
From Classic's website
Quote:
Canvas Strop
The Canvas or Linen Strop is generally used before final stropping on the leather strop. It's purpose is to provide a very honing to the razor's edge, replacing most of the keenness which was lost in it's last use. While it has proven effective for this purpose, it will not sharpen a dull razor but will extend the period between honings.
This strop is composed of high quality linen or silk woven into a fine or coarse texture.
A fine-textured linen strop is most desirable for putting a lasting edge on a razor. To obtain the best results, a new canvas strop should be thoroughly broken in. A daily hand finish will keep its surface smooth and ready for stropping. For a hand finish, the canvas strop is given the following treatment:
Many modern Linen strops often come from the manufacturer pre-treated with a very fine chalk-based abrasive. These strops are generally quite stiff when new and do not require any break-in though their performance does improve with use. Over time the chalk abrasive may be worn away. It can be replaced with Linen Strop Paste, which is itself chalk-based and usually is either white or gray in color.
- Attach the swivel end of the strop to a fixed point, such asanail.
- Lay the strop flat on a smooth and level surface and hold the unsecured end firmly.
- Rub a bar of dry soap over the strop, working it well intothe grain of the canvas.
- Rub a smooth glass bottle over strop several times, each time forcing the soap into the grain and also removing excess soap.
Seraphim
How many tubes of white paste did it take to cover the cotton strop to that degree?
Thanks,
Tony
One entire tube of Dovo white does a strop. Have you ever tried it, Tony?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Miller
I will now!
I have the white paste but honestly never used it much. After working with a bunch of NOS strops, all of which are coated with chalk I am interested in trying to achieve the same thing.
Tony
interesting. is the idea then that once you use a tube to coat the whole linen side, you dont need to add any regularly? or you need one to coat it, and another to add regularly? when I used the dovo white on dovo linen, I needed FAR less than a whole tube to get it what seemed pretty well coated.
also, I understand that "pastes" are best for use smoothing/finishing after honing, but does that apply to the dovo yellow? that just seemed like a yellow/fat leather conditioner. hard to imagine that could have any disadvantage, other than keeping the leather nice and moist and supple, and maybe increasing draw/friction a bit?
and while we're ont he subject, anyone have any experience with the T-I sharpening paste? (see e.g. Thiers-Issard Razor Sharpening Paste) sounds like a mix of a CROX-type thing with a diamond paste. not sure what micron this corresponds to, but seems like a nice easy way to refresh the razor. but is it really possible to effectively combine the sharpening and smoothing/finishing into one step? in general with such things, shortcuts that try to combine steps just never work as well, in my experience. (you can't combinee sanding 100-grit and then 200-grit into one step.)
Years ago, when Ray from Classic was still alive, he gave me a bunch of Dovo pastes including the white and some of the TI white paste.
As far as the Dovo white paste, I tried it on several vintage strops back then, using it with the cotton and linen strops and really never noticed any appreciable difference as a result of having put it on the strop. I never used a full tube, but used enough to coat the strop pretty well. You definitely have to let it dry before using and once does it darkens on the strop quickly with use.
Normally the edge on a razor should last someone with regular beard growth, using the same razor every day, 2-3 months before it starts to dull and needs to be honed or refreshed. I think the test on this would be to see how long you can go before needing a touch up or honing as a result of using the paste rather than a proclamation at 30 days that your razor is still sharp (which it should be anyway). It would also be interesting to see what the results are with a variety of razors, vintage and new and from various manufacturers.
I have not tested the white paste with the poly webbing material and may to see if any difference than what I got from cotton and linen.
On the TI white paste, it actually will make a razor sharper sometimes. If I line up 10 razors fresh off the hones and do 10 strokes ( I also experimented at 15 strokes and 20 strokes, but found 10 was optimal for me) with the TI white on either the back of a leather strop or on the cotton or linen strop, I could normally rely on 3-4 of them really providing a nice shave. I played with this stuff for months. I never could figure out what razor it was going to work on, what razor it would dull and what razor it would seem to do nothing on. The TI white paste really loads up quickly and turns black almost from the first razor that hits it.
Have fun,
Lynn
hey thanks for the thoughts Lynn. why does it matter that the white paste dry? (I suppose it might help to understand the physics of just what the linen is doing that the leather strop isn't, and how the white paste is supposed to change/improve that.)
that sure is weird what you describe about the T-I paste. Sounds wonky. Makes me only want to bother trying it if I get a T-I razor at some point.
Also, when you cite that 2-3-month baseline, I'm guessing you mean should be able to last 2-3 months with just leather stropping, with maybe some plain linen/canvas? No barber hones, diamond pastes, CROX, etc. Is that right? And, of course, what you say indeed sounds like a good test - but investing a few months of daily use with something is a lot - and includes committing to keeping everything else constant. One can't do that with everything. Science? Art? Science? Art?
The white paste like most pastes I have played with has some moisture in it. Feels greasy when you rub it, then sort of wet and then it dries but still a little greasy feeling. In any case, If you just use these pastes as soon as you put them on, you get most of it right back off and usually on the razor. Once it dries, it seems more effective for the intended use. You will have to do the physics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mijbil
We are all always looking for pastes, strops, stones and razors to be able to enjoy this experience just a little better. It never ends and neither should people trying as much of this out for themselves as possible. This is the nature of this sport unless you are just interested in shaving.....:)
You are correct in the baseline being a razor that is stropped on plain cotton or linen and then leather as compared to using the paste to see if it extends the period of time required to refresh or re-hone. You would use one freshly honed razor daily for with the paste to see how long it takes. This is pretty straight forward. I think Glen did a stropping test for months at one point to help take something from the "I think" perspective to this is what happened. You can speculate on things forever, but the knowledge comes from the actual experience.
Have fun,
Lynn
_____________________________________Quote:
Originally Posted by hghtsbrb
_______________________________________
You might want to watch the Mastro Livi videos to learn his palm stropping method. I have been palm-stropping at mid-shave for several weeks and it seems to be helping my edge regardless of which razor I am using.
.
Actually, Don and I have and continue to give classes at a local Barber College, teaching guys how to strop and hone as well as discussing self shaving techniques. These folks really get into this and it is a lot of fun for us. Having a Barber in the group from Canton, OH which is about 1/2 from me is killer and I will undoubtedly not only make it there for a shave, but have him over to get the opportunity to use all my hones, strops and talk shopQuote:
Originally Posted by mrsell63
Lynn
I have always wondered if the old timers ended up with hone slurry/ dust
on their strops over time. Coticule slurry dust might make a great canvas
strop dressing in modest amounts.
My opinion/ thought on this is that the canvas cleaned the
steel so the leather stayed cleaner. Small amounts of iron oxide would be
removed from the blade and small crinkled bits of the blade would "snag"
and pull straight on the fibers of the canvas side. Then the leather would
finish the clean up and also work harden the cutting edge as it pulls it straight.
Small amounts of oil/ fat on the leather would also protect the edge from oxidation.
I also suspect that the nature of the canvas/ linen has a lot to do with
stropping. My Illinois linen/ canvas is so clogged with sizing that it does not
act like fabric to my hand. I have taken to giving it spritzes of 0.25 micron
diamond which seems to cut the sizing as much as it polishes steel. I wish
I had access to some old chalk board dust instead.
________________________________________Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
________________________________________________
Thanks Nifty
I feel much the same way about the purpose of the web strop.
May I suggest that you gently wash your clogged Illinois linen with Woolite and a soft brush. Then let it dry naturally while laying perfectly flat. That should get you back to a near new surface on the webbing.
If you try the Woolite, let me know how it came out. Thanks
JERRY:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsell63
I did wash it a couple months back and it has so much "plastic"
sizing it did not even get wet. Used Williams and a CVS boar brush.
It did clean off the surface..... and did get it close to 'new' except I did
not like it new. It is so tempting to "fix" it but since it
will change over time I just need to give it some....
I researched this a bit and am now certain that the chalk that they are referring to in the old texts as "magnesia" is carbonate of magnesia, currently still available as chalk for rope climbers, gymnasts, and weightlifters. Apparently blackboard chalk is a different chemical (based on gypsum). I bought a cloth bag the size of a softall full of it for $5. If you can't find any locally where the wall climbing guys and gals buy their stuff I know you can order it from www.mec.ca. I just rub the cloth ball of chalk against the linen strop and then use the palm of my hand to rub the chalk dust into the waeve of the fabric. Semms to stick ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsell63
Spot on .... good simple rule.
Thank you for the research.Quote:
Originally Posted by dgstr8
Blackboard chalk is all over the place in terms of composition.
I think climbing chalk will do the job. I know some climbers and
I am sure I can beg a bit..... for a couple of pints... Hang on....
a couple of pints in that group could cost me $50.... by the
end of the night... :beer2: so not a bargain but might be worth it
if I take chalk out of the mix.
Availalbe for a few bucks on amazon: Amazon.com: Metolius Super Chalk: Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com Shopping Cart