Is linen neccessary + The difference between linen and cotton

Ok, I am sure this question has been asked before but if I put it into search I can't quite get a direct answer to it. I thought I would therefore ask the question to bring it up again for those who wanted to know (like me). Is linen stropping necessary. I can't really make an opinion myself. Until quite recently I didn't notice how effective stropping actually is. I definitely used to strop before but perhaps only 30 laps. Now I do about 60 and I can really feel a difference every time I shave. I do maybe 10 on the linen before I start but this is because I saw a video with Jockeyes saying this was to warm up the blade. I still can't really decide if there is a difference and there have been times I have gone straight to the leather without feeling much difference in shave.

What are your experiences?

Also, have any of you tried cotton? Would cotton have the same purpose as linen, i.e. as a warm up to the leather?

Having tried using just leather for stropping, and leather plus a material, I prefer the edge on a razor after its been stropped on the material side as well as the leather. Thats just my personal preference and there are others here who use leather alone with very good results.

I do 30 material (on my main strop its SRD's webbed fabric) and then 60 leather strokes before each shave. I then do 15 material and 25 leather after cleaning the razor post shave in order to get rid of any microgunk on the edge and make sure its totally dry.

I've used linen on my first strop, and this strop is webbed fabric so I cant advise you on the cotton. That said, the webbed fabric is a great material and performs easily as well, if not better than, the linen on my other strop.

Thanks Stu - is webbed fabric the same as cotton? That sounds about right when I think about it.

Hi Ganboyi,

In my opinion, anything you strop on that produces friction warms the blade, so stropping on leather will do that to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the type of leather and how it has been dressed.

Again - in my opinion - the difference between leather and natural vegetable materials is that the leather is less abrasive. Not much in it with the materials normally used in strops, but enough to notice a difference.

I find that the less refined linen is coarser than cotton and has a slightly more abrasive effect.

Regards,
Neil

Neil! Just the man. It is your website that prompted me to ask as I saw your cotton option and wondered the difference to linen. Great to hear your thoughts. Thank you.

Ahhh that makes sense. I did think webbed fabric was synthetic but no experience with it. I suppose on a scale from soft to hard would be cotton-linen-webbed fabric?

Also remember that all Linen is not created equal. You can go to Fabrics-store.com: Fabric - Linen fabric - Discount fabric - Upholstery fabric - Wholesale fabric - Vintage fabric - Cotton fabric and order a sample of different weight linen for free. the Heavy weight linen feels a little coarser than the light weight linens and may be more durable for stropping material if you are attempting to make one yourself.

I am not sure what weight the SRD strop use for linen as I currently am using a homemade one until I can figure out which SRD strop I want.

This is something that has been debated for years as evidenced by the 1961 barber manual excerpt in the SRP Wiki help files here. On page 26 it reads,"The viewpoint is accepted by barbers that the leather strop is indispensable,where the canvas may or may not be, depending on the individuals coordination of hone and strop. With some types of hones, however, the canvas is considered to be necessary."

I got a big kick out of that because I've seen so many differing views on the subject. IME a linen or a webbed fabric before the leather is definitely improving my edges. I've no experience with cotton but I've read that some guys prefer that material.

The benefits to the shave are subjective, and therefore up for discusion...

BUT

Anyone who strops on a white colored linen/cotton fabric will tell you, and can show you the one fact of the discussion... There are traces of rust and corrosion left on the fabric, the longer you use it the more that shows up.... I would rather have those traces on the fabric (where they can be brushed off easily) then embedded in my leather strop....:)

Wow, this I never knew. And hell yeah. I'm going to heavily go on the linen first now more so than I ever did. Thanks!

My standard every day stropping is 25/50, I haven't ever found more to be better... BUT... as we say with honing your stroke might not be the same as mine, so start more at first, then back it down until you notice a difference in the feel of the shave.. you might only need 15/30 only you will know...

Ok, I'm going to restart at 30/60 and move down.

I have both tm cotton and linen the linen is more efective in my opinion. I do 20 linen and 40 leather.

As Jimmy points out, this issue has been debated over the years. I have read the same as the rest of the posters but never that the linen (or other materials) could be damaging. If anything, if you have the few minutes to spare, I would do it. I do find stropping extremely relaxing so I do not mind the extra stropping at all.

Al raz.

This is what I am talking about

Top is new linen, bottom is after about 200 razors....


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Originally Posted by gssixgun

The benefits to the shave are subjective, and therefore up for discusion...

BUT

Anyone who strops on a white colored linen/cotton fabric will tell you, and can show you the one fact of the discussion... There are traces of rust and corrosion left on the fabric, the longer you use it the more that shows up.... I would rather have those traces on the fabric (where they can be brushed off easily) then embedded in my leather strop....:)

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Glen, you've stropped many more razors than most of us ever will. Have you noticed any appreciable difference between cotton and linen?

I just began using Neils linen and it is great. Seems like a perfect fit for a
straight razor.

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Originally Posted by Basset

Glen, you've stropped many more razors than most of us ever will. Have you noticed any appreciable difference between cotton and linen?

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NO !!! :) not on a per shave basis... I don't even know if I could honestly say the edges last longer that way, I THINK they do but I have never set down an experiment to prove it...I can't even say I notice a difference between just leather...

The only PROOF I can offer is what I just showed you, something comes off the edges, if you could look close, there are tiny bits of red in there too....So something is happening off the linen/cotton and I am pretty sure if the webbed fabric were white you would see it there too... I have been doing it this way to long to change now, whether you chose to go that route is your decision....

You would have to look closely with magnification to see what the stuff is. maybe oil traces, maybe dust and dirt, maybe metal?

I have the same thing on mine. I've used linen and canvas and a few other types and though I always use cloth and I feel it helps I don't notice any differences between them though they all feel different as you use them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

This is what I am talking about

Top is new linen, bottom is after about 200 razors....


Attachment 41596

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Hi guys,
I'm a noobie here and have a question about the strops pictured. Do any razors go directly from hones to that cloth or is it strictly from face to strop? If hones are involved I think that is swarf from honing. I have same strop with 6 months of use with no hones involved and mine looks nothing like that. I very well could be completely wrong.:)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

There are traces of rust and corrosion left on the fabric

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Due to the fact that the material is abrasive some metal must be getting deposited in the fibres of the strop. Is it possible that this rust/corrosion was never on the razor and is purely a result of the trapped metal particles becoming oxidized.

Makes no difference, but it was the first thing that popped into my head when I read your post.

P.S. If this is the case, then the leather strop components may also suffer this but their colour makes it harder to spot :thinking:

Yes and No...

Yes they do go from hones to that strop but they go to other places first, if that was from the honing process it should be if anything, Green from the CrOx...

But this is by no means my first Illinois strop all of them do this whether the razor has touched a hone or not... I used to only use a #827 as an everyday strop and it was actually worse then this one... I have a Craftsman that is rarely used and you can see minute traces of something on it too....

I don't think the honing swarf could account for this, not a bad idea though...

Now I could be convinced that it is perhaps because of the time between my personal razors use???? I don't think this would happen if you were using a razor every other day, I don't know though...

I will just say that a simple experiment shows the value of a linen, or cotton, strop. I have done the following with both types; from the hone, test HHT. Does not pass but shaves the ends of arm hairs easily (well honed)...go to linen 50 strokes. The razor usually passes HHT then. IMO the cotton or linen actually sharpens. Evidence-darkening of the fabric indicating metal removal, and demonstrable HHT that did not previously exist. Then, finish with 50 passes on leather, and you are shave ready! I also work in a CroOX treated paddle strop monthly on my rotation, keeps the shave smooth. For what it's worth. This result is easily reproducible, assuming you have a linen or cotton strop. Try it out!

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Originally Posted by TartanJim

Due to the fact that the material is abrasive some metal must be getting deposited in the fibres of the strop. Is it possible that this rust/corrosion was never on the razor and is purely a result of the trapped metal particles becoming oxidized.

Makes no difference, but it was the first thing that popped into my head when I read your post.

P.S. If this is the case, then the leather strop components may also suffer this but their colour makes it harder to spot :thinking:

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The abrasiveness must certainly play a part - but almost anything rubbbed on anything else enough times will leave a deposit - if it is a deposit that is prone to further oxidation then unsurprisingly the deposit will be more visible.

Cotton and linen are a vitual mesh to trap particles in. Doing some hard work for a day in a close-fitting white collar will tell you that. There must have been a good reason why back in the good old days they made interchangable collars and cuffs for shirts!

I suspect if you used the most pristine source imaginable and rubbed a piece of linen 30 laps a day on the inner thigh of a young virgin it would show some evidence of the act.

In the world that we can see and touch things like shiny razors seem to be made of one homogeneous whole, but in the microscopic world of elements, particles and molecules there is a lot of debris on the surface of almost everything just waiting to be dislodged. To some extent to see evidence of this only in strops means we are looking through blinkers - the blinkers of the straight-razor community.

Some old barber manuals mention the very fact that you have alluded to, TartanJim - that strops become clogged with metal particles and need to be cleaned periodically. But then again, some old barber manuals mention the most outrageous things! :)

Regards,
Neil

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Originally Posted by Croaker

I will just say that a simple experiment shows the value of a linen, or cotton, strop. I have done the following with both types; from the hone, test HHT. Does not pass but shaves the ends of arm hairs easily (well honed)...go to linen 50 strokes. The razor usually passes HHT then. IMO the cotton or linen actually sharpens. Evidence-darkening of the fabric indicating metal removal, and demonstrable HHT that did not previously exist. Then, finish with 50 passes on leather, and you are shave ready! I also work in a CroOX treated paddle strop monthly on my rotation, keeps the shave smooth. For what it's worth. This result is easily reproducible, assuming you have a linen or cotton strop. Try it out!

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i have performed both test and linen gave me much better hht than cotton. Time and time again the linen dramaticly improves hht of the hone. thats why i'd never part with my linen.

Hello everyone, I'm new and just registered. I'm glad I found this site because I've been using a straight razor for over 30 years now and wasn't sure about the linen side. I originally was looking for the differents between linen and cotton and that's how I come to be on this site.

I strop before every shave and after cleaning the razor. But I learned a few things from an experienced straight razor shaver, and that was, use a good quality razor (Germans make good cold steel blades $100.00). He told me to get a nice smooth stone, (looks like slat) and stroping paste. I don't really use the stone often, it's just incase you get it out of shape. But what I check for after i'm finish stroping my razor, is, does it cut hair? and how I do that is; I pull out a hair from my head an hold it (not like you see in a carton, where you alway see them splitting a hair.) you hair between for-fingre & thumb, and holding your razor at 45 degrees, put the blade up against the hair. You don't have to make any cutting action, just touch the hair, if it cuts clean through and the hair falls away, then the blade is razor sharp. I it breaks the hair and it just fall over and stays attach, you have to strap some more.

I hope my info about sharpening your razor helps someone.

Bob