Misadventure #1 - restoring antique strop.

When? Yesterday, present. I followed advice from another forum, I tried the search engine here, but unsuccessfuly. It went wrong, (except for the canvas/linen - that worked). Advice/direction suggested was: wash strop with tallow rich soap (tabac) which I did, use a pumice stone (natural), which I did and lay flat on cloth. Appears a lot of the pigment or dye was washed out (along with the filth and the cordovan is scratchy, and dry. Suppleness has gone :( :boohoo: I'm hopeful it can be rejuvenated and given the serviceable life it deserves. After all, 'the old nag' died to become a strop. Thanks for any assistance.

I've never done that to a strop but I've read posts on the topic. IIRC they said to lather up the leather on a flat surface and rub it down with a bottle. Here is a thread with some of that in it. Post 18 in that thread gives the old barber manual way of doing it. :gl:

Thanks for the response and link. :) I used the tabac soap, rubbed it all in, and the pumice stone did what was mentioned in that link, with the added shock at how much scratching and exodus of dye with the strop. I notice no mention of water in this link advice for conditioning strops. To get to this stage, I included water (rinsing) during my process....perhaps that added to the (current) stiffness and loss of suppleness of the strop. It is stiffer and seems drier now. Not sure to 'restore' the pigment, or wash it all out! I fear I've created a bit-of-a-mess. :(

PLAN:
I will use tabac again, generate a very thick lather (with boar shaving brush), apply to face of the strop with brush (is the back necessary?), and rub the bottle's side along the length of the face. I do not have any strop-'paste', so will wipe off excess after first application, then reapply and leave insitu for 24 hours. This time I will not leave in or rinse with water....(?)

Before I act, it might be prudent to await any kind response to my next 'planned interaction' with this strop. Thank you.

well lathering the strop is ok
rinsing with water is not
i would wipe off the dryed lather with DRY paper towel

if it has gotten werry dry you may need some exstra steps but what you suggest should atleast be safe

it got VERY wet :gaah: it is thoroughly dried in a flat position on cloth

well if its not warped beyond repair its not dead yet

just in need of some care

not warped at all. :) I'll await any further advice before I try this out. Hopefully in twelve or so hours. thanks guys!

If it is now dried it needs to be remoisturized with an oil first . Neatsfoot oil would be best, front, back and sides but use just a little bit and allow to soak in overnite. Reapply if needed. A hand cream oil would also work.
Try rubbing the leather with a glass bottle to work in the oils.

Once it is again supple then you can use some sandpaper to smooth out the surface. I usually finish with a 400 grit. From there you can decide if that is the texture you wish or continue on with the shaving lather/bottle approach.

Hope this helps and let us know what you do and the results.

Good luck,:)

Wasn't B&B was it?

If so it looks like you forgot the bottling stage - if you pumice you have to bottle the strop to smooth it out again. Also, the pumice stone must have been pretty coarse. Not all is lost though - just lather it again, give it a really good, heavy bottling and let it dry - hanging with a weight or with a smooth absorbent layer over it under weight.

If the draw is off (eg the soap didn't have enough tallow in it) wipe it down with a well-wrung out damp cloth, pour a few drops of neatsfoot oil or squeeze some yellow strop dressing onto a balled-up cloth and spread it all over the strop quickly. Dampening the strop first stops the oil/tallow (yellow strop paste is just tallow) from being absorbed, giving you a chance to get a thin, even layer.

As for rubbing with the bottle - think more of trying to press the bottle through the strop - you need a very stout bottle with no seams/label and really lean into it - 5 mins minimum, more is better.

When it is thoroughly dry try it out - if it still has not got enough draw, just repeat the step above to increase the draw a bit. As you know the soap did not have enough tallow in it, you will have to do that step at least once.

Regards,
Neil

Personally I don't like the idea of water with leather. The two don't mix except certain types of specialized leathers like saddle leather and alcan leather. Most old strops are dry to begin with and the water makes it worse. There are leather cleaners out there that are like gels and use no water. Once clean you can then use a conditioner or neatsfoot oil.

The only time I use water with a strop is if the strop is in good condition but there is a crease in it that won't come out. Water then becomes the nuclear option. Once soaked and allowed to dry slowly without heat the crease will come out.

Neil. Yes it was B&B and the one I read mentioned pumice and bottle were optional. After seeing the pumice I thought it prudent to garner more expertise before continuing. Thank you to everyone above this post. :)

Quick update! I've spent time with applying lather, and rubbing it into the strop's face. During the process, froth or foam was not present the entire time as concentrating on rubbing the tallow soap in rather than (imv) caking it on froth upon froth. I gave several applications.

Result thus far; I'm astonished with how different it is in appearance and 'bend'. I did use a LOT of elbow grease over the 100 minutes, and it's now laying flat on cloth with final coat of lather on face and smear on the back. Note, (tabac tallow soap) (NB: elbow grease is a colloquialism)

I did take pictures before. I plan on after pics as well.

Hopefully the bottling will have smoothed the surface of the leather and the tallow in the soap will have increased the suppleness of the leather.

Most changes in leather - drying, splitting, cracking, stiffness - are due to losing moisture. The fibres in the leather contract and lose the ability to 'slide' over each other - the result is a bit of stiff or brittle leather. If it goes too far it is irreversible.

A certain amount of oil will trap the moisture in the leather - when it comes from the tannery leather has between about 15% - 20% oil content on average. Oxidation of the oil over time lets the moisture out of the leather.

So a certain amount of oil is good, but too much is very bad - that is why it is best to lightly dampen the surface of the leather before oiling, and to apply the oil from a bunched-up, lint-free cloth so not too much is absorbed. Strangley, oiling the back often results in a more even distribution of oil.

Regards,
Neil

Neil.... just a question. Do you think that the tallow from the soap is as easily absorbed as neatsfoot oil? To me, the viscosity is very different, that is why I suggested using oil first.

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Neil.... just a question. Do you think that the tallow from the soap is as easily absorbed as neatsfoot oil? To me, the viscosity is very different, that is why I suggested using oil first.

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I think you are right Randy - the oil would seem to be more appropriate - tallow is quite thick at room temperature.

Regards,
Neil

does tanned leather really have oil in it? I am not so sure. I think the process-choose the one you like best- will take the oil out. Some leathers like latigo have oil wax treatments as part of the finishing process

To me neatsfoot oil is nasty rancid stuff so I was pleased to read in Shaving made Easy not to use oil which I had already concluded. But then again I never had a old dry-rotted, cracked strop either.

Water will evaporate away quickly and any inordinate stiffness will relax in short order especially if you bottle burnish and hand rub. Strops are not footwear or exposed to the rigors of outdoor gear and we now know that mink oil and similar treatments will ultimately shorten the lifespan of such items.

If the pumice has left the surface too nappy then some finer sandpaper will lower that. My leather which was new had its most effective treatment with dry castile soap rubbed on and burnished into the surface - big time draw, very smooth surface.

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Originally Posted by kevint

does tanned leather really have oil in it? I am not so sure. I think the process-choose the one you like best- will take the oil out. Some leathers like latigo have oil wax treatments as part of the finishing process

To me neatsfoot oil is nasty rancid stuff so I was pleased to read in Shaving made Easy not to use oil which I had already concluded. But then again I never had a old dry-rotted, cracked strop either.

Water will evaporate away quickly and any inordinate stiffness will relax in short order especially if you bottle burnish and hand rub. Strops are not footwear or exposed to the rigors of outdoor gear and we now know that mink oil and similar treatments will ultimately shorten the lifespan of such items.

If the pumice has left the surface too nappy then some finer sandpaper will lower that. My leather which was new had its most effective treatment with dry castile soap rubbed on and burnished into the surface - big time draw, very smooth surface.

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Mostly it does - to what degree depends on the process. without any oils or tallow it would rot and disintegrate in short order. The types of oil vary from animal, fish, egg yolk and brains, etc. The oil impregnation usually precedes the tanning process.

As if that wasn't enough, the end procedures often include replenishing oils that are lost during prep, liming, deliming, fleshing, curing, tanning and colouring.

During tanning the hides are soaked in the tanning solution to strengthen them, then they are often re-tanned and oils are added along with dyes if necessary.

Then there is the dressing stage, where the hides may be waxed and/or injected with oil.

One of the processes is even called 'fatliquoring' and involves suspension in an emulsion - an oil/water suspension. Oils involve olive oil, egg yolk (for fat content), neatsfoot, sulphated fish oils, linseed oil, hemp oil, maize oil, sunflower oil, castor oil, cocnut oil, cod and shark liver oils, beef tallow, sheep tallow, lard, bone fat, and waxes such as carnauba wax, beeswax, lanolin. non-animal or vegetable oils and fats are also used: paraffin wax, mineral oil, fatty alcohols, etc, etc, etc.

So yes, it does have oil in it.

Regards,
Neil

I do thank you guys for responding. I have always wondered what the process was to make a piece of leather but I have never seen a really comprehensive description.

One of the main questions I have is just how long has that piece of leather been sitting on the shelf, drying out? The impetus for that came when I visited Sykes Belting Co. in St. Louis Park, MN. He had stacks of leather laying around and some had been there for years! As a consequence I have been applying a coating of neatsfoot oil to any piece of leather that I purchase.

Just rambling,:)

After spending my entire life around horses, motorcycles, and rednecks I had no worries about caring for my strop.

Lessons:

1. Do NOT use baseball glove oil. It contains petrol products to break the leather down to soften it. At best it will leave the strop sticky, at worst it will be worse :P

2. Invest in a tin of saddle soap paste. Yes it is used with water but it will not leave the leather cupped, warped, or stiff. Just follow the directions on the tin. I do rinse it off but you don't have to.

3. If you insist on adding more oil to the leather after the saddle soap(it is oily) only use PURE neatsfoot oil.

4. Do not leave the strop in direct sunlight

5. if it gets wet I would dry it with light weight hanging from it. I use 5 or 6 plastic clothes hangers hanging it from a closet rod.

6. Rub it a lot.

If you need to find saddle soap and neatsfoot oil you can order it off the net or find a local tack shop. They are pretty much everywhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

I do thank you guys for responding. I have always wondered what the process was to make a piece of leather but I have never seen a really comprehensive description.

One of the main questions I have is just how long has that piece of leather been sitting on the shelf, drying out? The impetus for that came when I visited Sykes Belting Co. in St. Louis Park, MN. He had stacks of leather laying around and some had been there for years! As a consequence I have been applying a coating of neatsfoot oil to any piece of leather that I purchase.

Just rambling,:)

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I left a few of the steps out, Randy, mostly because they are a bit 'indelicate' or at least they used to be in the old days. To break down the leather it can be left to rot for a while - it helps to loosen the hairs and aids in removing the fleshy layer and blood vessels. After this step animal dung was/is used - mainly from dogs and birds (you can still get a whiff of it from leathers sold abroad - I noticed it very much in Cyprus and parts of Spain - the smell is a bit ameliorated but still stays in the leather).

In the old days they had people called 'dung gatherers' who went out in the early hours before everyone was abroad. They had a sack that they scooped dog dirt into. God knows where they kept the sack during the day! In consequence of this tanneries gave off an enormous stench - so they were often situated on the outskirts of town where the smell would be less objectionable. One of the most disagreeable tasks must have been preparing the dung water into which the skins were placed - people trod it into the skins with their bare feet, much like pressing grapes. Or it could be simply daubed all over the skins. Undiluted.

Slightly less disagreeable was the preparation of 'brain soup' - one of the old maxims was that "every animal has enough brains to tan its own hide". Tanning with brains gives a very soft leather. Another contender is urine, which gives a whitish leather. Urine was also sometimes used to aid the de-hairing process.

Not very pleasant to think of when you are stropping a razor on that old vintage strop...

Regards,
Neil

I have a friend that tans his deer hides every year just to get better at being able to do it. He uses the brain meathod then stretchesit and works it from there. He has done both fur on and fur off. The results were more like satin than leather. Amazing stuff.

Neil, surely some of those tannages will not produce a leather suitable for strops.
But I did do a bit of reading on the matter and you are right. My favorite leather is true oak tan- but I suppose there may still be sources for other tans that are done with proper attention

many times I have read some wishful advice on oiling that says "try not to use too much" which sounded a lot to me like it never went well for anyone and it was figured to be theoretically possible.

what about oiling the flesh side if you must oil?

I really just cant imagine the need for using any on a new or well cared for vintage piece.

Boots, tack, stuff like that. I apologize to the OP if he lives out of doors;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kevint

Neil, surely some of those tannages will not produce a leather suitable for strops.
But I did do a bit of reading on the matter and you are right. My favorite leather is true oak tan- but I suppose there may still be sources for other tans that are done with proper attention

many times I have read some wishful advice on oiling that says "try not to use too much" which sounded a lot to me like it never went well for anyone and it was figured to be theoretically possible.

what about oiling the flesh side if you must oil?

I really just cant imagine the need for using any on a new or well cared for vintage piece.

Boots, tack, stuff like that. I apologize to the OP if he lives out of doors;)

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That's correct - some produce very soft leathers like you would use for clothing, gloves, that sort of thing. I was just listing the general details, not concentrating on strop leather (but even that varies wildly from very hard, stiff leathers to very soft leathers from a diversity of animals).

You also have to consider that "tanning" is just one step in the process. It follows the 'bating' (dung covering) step. Originally the tanning process involved using plant material - it contains tannins (hence 'tanning'), of which oak leaves are a particularly rich source. Oils/fats/tallow/lard may have been introduced in steps both prior to and after tanning.

I absolutely agree that oiling the flesh side promotes a more even coverage, but it can be hard to put on just a small amount if the flesh side is very coarse and textured and if the oils have oxidised than something is needed to trap the moisture on both sides, so treatment - even if it is just saddle soaping (which contains oils such as neatsfoot and lanolin) is best carried out on both sides.

Like you, I can't see any reason to use oil on a new strop unless you wanted to alter the draw to suit you (but then a leather of suitable draw should probably have been selected in the first place), but loss of oil leading to loss of moisture and fibre contraction does affect a lot of old strops - you can see that crazed pattern on the dressed/finish side of them. - that cannot be cured by re-oiling.

Regards,
Neil