Ballistol & Horse Hide experiment

Has anyone ever used Ballistol on a leather strop? I ask, because I did the other day, on a piece of Horse Hide with amazing results.

Yesterday, I had selected a vintage “Fine Edge”, one of my favorite razors to shave with. I had not shaved with it for over a month. I stropped 10 laps on SRD Herringbone Linen, then 4 laps on a MAAS paddle strop and 20 on the MAAS Buffing paddle. 50 laps on a 2 inch nylon strop and 50 laps on the Ballistol conditioned “Horse Butt” strop laying flat on the bench.

I lathered up and shaved with the razor WTG, the first pass was very smooth and comfortable. I normally do 2 passes WTG with a thick lather then one pass ATG with lather and clean up with just water.

I lathered up again and made the second pass. At the end of the second pass it looked like I had been shot with bird shot, with weepers all over my face. What was odd was both passes were very comfortable and smooth and I felt no nicks or cuts, the razor was that sharp.

The only thing I did differently from my normal stropping routine was to finish on the Ballisto conditioned Horse Butt strop, which produced an amazingly sharp and smooth edge.

I had purchased the Ballistol based on a thread some months ago on oiling blades with gun oils. No one carried it locally, but one gun shop said he carried it once and would see if he could reorder it. Last week I was in the shop and he finally got some in.

When I got it home I read the label that stated it was an excellent leather conditioner. I tried it on a scrap piece of leather and it did condition the leather well and left it a nice Carmel color. The color I had been trying to achieve on another strop I had made.

Ballistol is a mineral oil based product but has the viscosity of water, thinner that plain mineral oil but does have a strong petroleum odor.

I had purchase this piece of Horst Hide, labeled “Horse Butt” a year or two ago from a woodworking site, I think. I don’t recall which one. At the time, I was not impressed with the draw of the strop or the finish it left on the razors. It seemed dry and very slick. So I hung it on the wall and it has pretty much hung there since.

The horsehide sucked up Ballistol like a “Sham Wow” and the strong smell did go away after a couple of days. It absorbed instantly into the leather, and within a day or two the color evened out. I applied it with a one inch paint brush, painting it on fairly liberally, waited a couple of day, re-coated it the same way and waited another couple of day. It does have a much better draw now, but not as much as neetsfoot on a cowhide strop.

Now I have experienced the same Weeper producing effect using the MAAS Foam Paddle but only after doing 20 plus laps on the MAAS paddle.

The more I experiment with pastes, the more I believe there is a definitely a synergy with paste, nylon strops and leather, in this case horse hide for the final finish and it is a matter of finding the right combination.

I’m going to have to attach some D rings to the Horse Butt and try some other razors on it.

The Black Latigo strop in the photos is one I included to show the change in color on Cowhide on the D ring holders. The D Ring holders have been treated with 2 coats of Ballistol. The Scalloped Holder is untreated. It is a prototype of a couple of Latigo strops I am making from a scrap I acquired. I will get 2 full size strops and this one out of it.

Ballistol & Horse Hide, maybe a good combo.

Marty

It's important to realize that Ballistol is not a "gun oil" like others. Most other oils used on guns are petroleum based and are not much different from 3-In-1 and many others. Ballistol is a multipurpose oil created in Germany to provide a single-product solution to soldiers needing to clean, condition and lubricate guns, leather harnesses, even certain kinds of wound treatments. Organic gardeners mix about two tablespoons of Ballistol with a little baking soda in a half-gallon of water and use the mix to spray plants to protect against bugs like aphids. It's appeal to gun fans is that you can use it with both black-powder and smokeless cleaning and lubing, so you don't have totally different kits for the guns.

Anyhow, my point is that nobody should just go buy some "gun oil" and think it will be good on leather! Ballistol is a very peculiar product.

Weeper Update - Day 2

So Yesterday morning, I stropped 10 laps on Herringbone linen, 50 laps on Nylon, 50 on the Horse Hide and shaved as usual. I passed on the MAAS Paddle, as I don’t think it needs any more abrasive.

It’s still a Weeper Maker, still smooth and still very comfortable, with about half the number of cuts from the day prior. The weeper cuts are very small & fine, rinsing in cold water stops the bleeding.

This is something I noticed before in the early day of my MAAS experiment. Over stropping on the MAAS paddle would almost always produce a Weeper Maker, 20-30 passes. Which is why I recomend 10 passes at a time and sneek up on the level of sharpness and comfort you desire.

I have always been able to calm down a blade by stropping on Latigo 50-100 passes or more. That seems to be true here with the Horse Hide.

I believe there is a point of diminished return where the razor is as sharp as it is going to get. Once it is at that point, stropping on leather will start to roll the edge and dull it somewhat while at the same time continuing to polishing the bevel. Here hand pressure and composition/hardness of the steel becomes critical to edge/sharpness retention.

When I say dull the edge, I’m not talking about butter knife dull, just dull enough to still make it a Squeegee, not a Weeper Maker and be smooth & comfortable.

It is the ability to fine tune a particular razor to my face & beard.

Nylon & Ballistol treated Horse Hide still a plus in my book. Ballistol is some impressive stuff if it does just half the stuff they claim and that others rave about on the web.

Enjoy

Marty

I put ballistol on my strop when I got it new to loosen it up as I've used it on leather slings.

I've lots of the stuff as I use it on firearms all the time.

Great stuff!

I use ballistol all the time, no weepers though.

Weeper Update - Day 3

It is still a weeper maker, about the same number of weepers as the day prior. I used the same preparation. 10 On Linen, 50 on Nylon, 50 on Ballistol conditioned Horse Butt strop. I am still stropping with the Horse Hide strop flat on the bench.

The shave is very smooth & comfortable and I do not feel the cuts during the shave. The fine weepers disappear and seal up with a cold water rinse and leave no marks or open back up.

Again I suspect this is a result of the synergy of paste, Nylon strop & final finishing on Ballistol Horse Hide.

Originally as a test, I had applied Ballistol on a small scrap of Cowhide about a 3 X ½ X 3/16 inch thick. I applied it to half of the piece with a Q-Tip. The Ballistol treated part is clearly more flexible than the untreated section, almost like rubber. The Ballistol does impart some new flexibility to the leather and feels similar to rubber.

Horse Hide does appear to be, denser than cowhide. The Horse Butt strop I have is about a 1/8 inch thick. I suspect it does not deflect under compression as much as cowhide due to its composition and thickness. Thereby Horse Hide does not have the tendency to roll an edged as much as cowhide which may explain the results I am getting.

Edge rolling is something that those new to stropping seem to have a problem with, which is why I believe Nylon/Poly, should be the strop to learn on. Another benefit is Nylon/Poly is almost impossible to nick and as a result allow new stoppers to learn the physical mechanics of stropping without slashing a leather strop.

Which brings up the common issue with honing on a stone and the varying results and resulting in numerous threads on the subject -“Pressure”.

Pressure clearly has a dramatic effect on honing the bevel no matter the stone used. This has to have the same effect on stropping and stropping materials. Any strop that compresses less would have less chance to roll the edge and there by polish the edge without rolling it. This is the strength of Poly/Nylon combined with the abrasiveness of nylon/poly and Horse Hide or possibly other dense abrasive hides.

Photo 1 test razor and Horse Butt strop
Photo 2 Razor, Strop & test scrap Left half treated.
Photo 3 Test Scrap Left half treated
Photo 4 Ballistol treated half under compression
Photo 5 Un-treated half under compression
Photo 6 Surface view Treated under compression
Photo 7 Surface view Un-treated under compression.

What the photos do no demonstrate is under compression (in Photos 6 & 7) the treated section is much smoother that the untreated. The untreated feels rough with hairline cracks.

Ballistol does treat the leather making it smoother while not increasing the draw as much as oil based product such as Neets Foot or Olive Oil.

I like the Horse Hide more as compared to Cow Hide, especially treated with Ballistol.


Marty

Mart, very informative. Thanks for sharing.. :~)
How is the blade now??

To each his own, I guess.

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Originally Posted by BKratchmer

To each his own, I guess.

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+1 to that...

Forgive my ignorance, What the Hell is a Weeper Maker...I know Boiler Maker, Widow Maker, Peace Maker, etc...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BKratchmer

To each his own, I guess.

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Well that is obvious..

Kevin

Day five, and it is still sharp, though not as many weepers, just using 50 on Nylon & Horse Hide on day 5. Still very comfortable.

Thanks

Marty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BKratchmer

To each his own, I guess.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Domino

Well that is obvious..

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Obvious, yet apparently misunderstood. This most likely was a polite way of saying that some would not consider "weepers" to be a goal for their shave.

Maybe it was a misunderstanding....:) I can't speak for Marty but I don't think his intended goal was for "weepers".

The goal was not to produce weepers. It was an observation of what an application of Ballistol did to a previously unimpressive Horse Hide strop.

I have been able to make other razors produce weepers with MAAS and a stropping on Cow Hide would calm down the edge and stop the weepers, while still giving a smooth & comfortable shave.

This time I chose to continue to strop with only Nylon & Horse Hide and see how long it would take to stop producing weepers.

It has now been 12 days 600 laps on the Horse Hide and still producing weepers. Normally 50-100 laps on any other Cow Hide strops I have would have stopped the weeper edge while remaining a smooth and comfortable shaver.

The only change to my normal routine was the use of the Ballistol treated Horse Hide as opposed to a Latigo final stropping. I believe the Horse Hide produced these results and continues to produce these results

It has now been 12 days, 600 laps on the Ballistol Horse Hide and still this morning 5-6 weepers. The Ballistol has increased the draw only slightly, nothing like Mink or Neets Foot oils. Still smooth still comfortable and the weepers seal up with just a cold water rinse.

Marty

So doesn't that mean that the Ballistol has decreased performance? I still don't understand how a sup-par edge is a measure of stropping excellence.

Benjamin

So exactly how do you figure an edge that is so sharp as to be weeper producing, is a sub par edge?

Marty

Since I measure my success by how much I DON'T cut myself, I like my edge to be sharp and smooth. If I cut myself and the edge is sharp, than either it's harsh or I was not paying attention to my technique.

To me, saying "My edge is so good I cut myself" is about the same as saying "My car is so fast, I crash three times a week."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M Martinez

Benjamin

So exactly how do you figure an edge that is so sharp as to be weeper producing, is a sub par edge?

Marty

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If it is genuinely sharp and smooth, then the shaving may be the sub-par part. Otherwise weepers are often the result of an over-honed or rough edge, in my experience. In any case, a technique that guarantees I will remove skin along with my beard isn't exactly one I'm going to call "Mission Accomplished" and begin emulating.

Oh hell.
I suppose I should have left the "to each their own" comment alone.

Along the lines of to each their own, if some of those "each" want little bloody spots all over their faces and consider that to be the hallmark of a great shave and a correctly prepped razor, then they are welcome to it. Others probably figure that sharp and comfortable can both go together without drawing any blood. The premise of this thread seems to imply that producing weepers is a good thing, or is somehow a standard for assessment of stropping function, and I disagree with that.

Ballistol is a great product and it will soften and preserve leather.

Any oil has the potential to raise the grain of a leather strop leaving it feeling fuzzy, furry, or velvety. In my opinion this is not a good thing.

From time to time I apply Ballistol to the unfinished (the nonstropping) side of my strop. This keeps the strop supple (and in 100 years I’ll know if it preserves) without changing the nature of the stropping surface.

I remain &c
LG Roy

Man that looks good enough to eat. Try it in pig skin next! :)
http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...r-4-day-3-.jpg