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This set of instructions came with a vintage Boker razor that is long since gone, along with the paper. I took a photo to post about what they said about shaving and cut off the lead in to where they recommend 5 or 6 round trips on the strop. I'm still doing my routine 40 to 50 but wonder what they had to say before the first sentenceAttachment 99352 seen in this photo. Anyone got the complete instructions ? If you do please enlighten me.
Jimmy,
It seems that, based on your Boker instructions and others I've seen that stropping "back in the day" was pretty much about cleaning and realignment of the edge, and not so much about "metal removal" or sharpening. I think they relied on the barber hone to sharpen, and the strop just to smooth and clean the edge for rust maintenance and (realignment) comfort. Maybe we're taking it to the next level and using the strop for a "modified" honing system rather than what our predecessors had envisioned. Of course, I think we're trying to take it to the next level of perfection, and they looked at it as a means to an end of a daily chore. I see their view, but as hobbiest's I kind of like our perspective too. I do find though, that I strop less now (count) and do minor touchups on the Escher more often, weekly to every two weeks, and I like the comfort of the more frequent honed edge. Just my thoughts. :thinking:
Regards,
Howard
Edit: Their reference to a basically flat (blade) plane to the face and a guillotine type stroke, are also key to a smooth and comfortable shave and extended life of a sharp and smooth edge, IMO!!
Maybe this instruction applies to the use of a pasted strop.
Stropping has never changed. it has always been about dressing the edge. No barber ever did 5 or 6 strokes on a strop.
Often times the instructions on strops, brushes and razors are not that great. I think they are more worried about use of their product and liability and damage more than good advice.
I have a diamond cussioned barber hone and strop combo stone the instructions are very similar 5 to 6 strokes on the stone, and 10 strokes on the leather...
Attached are two pages of advice from J.R. Torrey dating from the mid 1890s. I doubt that Torrey's warranty can be honored since the JR Torrey Company folded in 1962, a sad case study of rags to riches back to rags. None-the-less, Torrey appears to regard the strop as a metal removing tool and appears to be touting its use of pastes on its strops. Unfortunately, Torrey does not indicate how many strokes are needed but indicates that edges can be restored quickly through the proper use of Torrey strops.
Torrey insisted that the straight razor was the best shaving instrument made and that the use of straight razors would eventually come back to popularity. They have to a limited extent, about 50 years too late for Torrey. Torrey at one point also marketed a fancy cased safety razor which utilized blades requiring resharpening. There is one currently being offered on e-Bay. I have not included the URL because it is a live auction.
Here's the full sheet, Jimmy - bit small, but you should be able to make it out with a bit of squinting! -
Attachment 99370
Presumably the razor was set at the factory, so maybe it had already been stropped - perhaps the initial stropping of 5 - 6 strokes is just to remove any protective film? I know that when I hone a razor for a newbie I strop it and ask them to shave first without stropping, so they can see what the edge is capable of, just in case they 'roll' it and then think the honing is under par. Maybe Boker had similar thoughts?
The instruction sheet does say to strop again after shaving to dry the edge, so that increases the count a bit if we presume stropping both before and after shaving.
I have seen very old treatises (late 1700s - can't remember the authors, though) on shaving that say 6 strokes or so, but undoubtedly this was on a strop charged with some sort of fine abrasive. A mid 1900s book I once read (forgotten the author again!) recommends 20 strokes, but this was definitely on a strop charged with white lead and some other substance, as they went on to describe the dressing for the strop.
Regards,
Neil
Thanks Neil. In the 1980s a then 70+ year old barber, with 50 years in the trade sold a coticule to me. We discussed honing and stropping and I remember him looking at me very seriously and telling me,"You can over strop a razor and lose the edge." Then I came to SRP and read thebigspendur's threads on "the great stropping experiment" and mparker's posts on extensive stropping to get a shave ready edge with a dull razor. I settled on 50 linen, 50 leather as a routine for quite some time and it was fine. Another 20 leather only after the razor is cleaned and wiped with a tissue following the shave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
The fore mentioned barber also "taught me to hone" with that coticule. He used his Lather King machine to apply hot lather to the stone and instructed me to do no more than 5 or 6 strokes on the coticule with the 'weight of the blade' or I might "lose the edge." Following his instructions doomed me to failure until I came to SRP 25 years later. Anyway .... I guess he , and Boker, are referring to shave ready razors, not ebay or antique store specials. :shrug:
I am still reading and re-reading for where it says to do the HHT to check the edge before trying to shave :rofl2:
Sometimes I just make myself smile :)
I don't, in practice, see any reason to do more than 10 strokes on a strop. Five to six would probably be fine. I don't recall ever over stropping no matter what. I've done 200 laps before.
But info like this always makes me feel like I'm missing some piece of the overall knowledge base.
There are hundreds of practical recipes for getting a straight razor working.
So I went up to grab a nice shave and was able to get some insight I think into this idea. With really light stropping you can have a nice sharp edge. That edge seems to shave well at the lowest possible angle. Bigger angles; more likely irritation. Using the razor flat was okay, but around 10 degrees seemed better. Sharp razor; less smooth.
Although it was probably intuitive; the amount, pressure, and deflection used in stropping is probably a key factor in the perceived optimal shaving angle.
The thing that struck me was that Boker says 5-6 strokes on a "new razor". I think one has to consider each razor on it's merits & also how recently it was honed & how it was finished. No formula is set in stone. We have probably all shaved quite comfortably off our favourite polishing stones so I see stropping as a variable process.
Its a funny thing..since my full wedge razor..my old hollow ground razors. (sold em) I get 95% + BBS with heavier grinds...my beard is very coarse..like cactus whiskers :-)..now it makes sense!
smalltank,
I'm the same! I could shave with a hollow ground, but it was slow, grabby, and treacherous. I tried about every grind from the Boker Extra Hollow to a Sheffield wedge. I finally found my choice with a Wacker Keilschliff wedge, and it's my go to razor over any others. It's a "to each his own" but I've found mine also!!
Regards,
Howard
It seems to me that in order to make an exact determination as to how many round trips on the strop is enough, one would have to lather up and, with a shave ready blade, do 5 round trips on the strop and make one shaving stroke on one's face.
Then do 5 more round trips on the strop, and make one more shaving stroke on one's face, then repeat this madness until one is satisfied that one has discovered the precise number of round trips on the strop necessary for achieving the optimum shaving edge via the strop.
I am personally down to 25 round trips on linen as well as leather. I was doing as many as 150 - 200 round trips on occasion and have since decided that fewer is better, However after almost 45 years of stropping, I still don't have the correct solution nailed down. That's why I am here reading this thread. Thanks for posting........
Jerry
The solution exists as the Barber Manual "Thumb Pad Test" (it's not referred to as such in the manuals BTW). Once mastered it gives a very accurate approximation of shave readiness and saves time by doing away with the necessity to shave and strop, shave and strop, or any other type of "shave test."Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsell63
You so funny, Senor!Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I don't want to hijack this thread, so please feel free to move this to a more appropriate forum. All these pics of original instruction sheets has given me an idea that might be worth running past the moderators: What about creating a Wiki section that includes photos/downloads of these original instructions?
Are you volunteering ?Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus
If there's enough interest and I have permission from Lynn, the administrators and moderators, I may just do so!Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
I also do 5 very deliberate strokes per side before any regular shave. Seems to work fine for my needs and for my razors, and doing more seldom results in better shave.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFDavis11
However, I will sometimes sit there and do more, almost unconsciously, because doing repetitive motion is somewhat relaxing for the mind.
There are already a few in the SRP library .... formerly know as the SRP Wiki. In 'images' and in 'Shaving Related Help Files', Guides. A lot of PDF files and a few image files below that menu. That probably would be the best place to put them .... IMHO.... and one of the Devs could let you know how to do it. We are always happy when industrious members add quality content to the SRP library.Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus
I would have to agree too I do between 10 and 20 strokes split between linen and leather before a shave normally and about another 10 after. If my shave wasn't up to snuff I may spend more time on the strop afterwards to get the edge back to where I like it. Based on tpt and my hht
