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I have his large loom and have had several of his razors and have had no issues other than sometimes needing to be honed before first use with his razors.
In general when you buy any Italian made product be it cars or other, logic in construction and reliability is often times absent.
I had issues with 2 custom razors. The blades did not close correctly in the scales. I sent one back and it cost me $70 and came back better. Another one I took apart and put washers in. It would have been to expensive to send back. These issues should have been corrected prior to the razors being shipped out. I guess two out of 7 isn't bad.
Seriously? 2 out of 7 is a 28.75% rate of flaws straight from the maker! For what he charges for his razors, there should *never* be problems with such basic razor crafting skills as pinning and centering the blade. You should not have to treat a top dollar custom razor like an eBay special and rebuild it to make it function correctly.
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I agree completely that, for the money he charges, Mastro Livi should deliver goods that went through a thorough quality control, arrive in a condition that allows the buyer to use them, and that Livi should stand by the goods he sells.
In my case, that was a CarboInox razor that provided an entirely unsatisfactory shave from the first day on, that I tried to make shave-ready by honing myself (just like thebigspendur did with his Livi), that refused to take an acceptable edge, that a well respected Solingen-based German razor manufacturer found unable to put an acceptable edge on as well, and that Mastro Livi tried to explain away as "excessive honing".
Even though I had explained the problem in the first of several e-mails shortly after the razor was delivered, he obviously never bothered to ask himself why on earth an expreienced straight shaver would want to repeatedly hone one of his brand-new razors shortly after delivery.
I shave every day with a straight, own about 70 razors that I manage to put keen yet comfortable, "silky" edges on and that I hone from time to time as the need arises.
About 15 are second-hand Friodurs where I had to begin from scratch by setting the bevel.
So this is not new to me.
Only two razors never took a keen edge.
One was a Friodur that I had bought unseen and that I found to have a crack in the blade and the other one is this brand-new Livi.
When Livi presented me with his cop-out explanation, I checked with the Solingen razor maker whether it could have been my honing attempts that had made a bad blade worse.
His answer was not to worry about it; the blade was in his assessment just "junk".
There you go.
I used to sing Livi's praises, but not anymore.
B.
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I have honed many Livi razors through the years I can't say I'm a fan of his work personally.
I don't mean to pile on, and I rarely bring this up since it's history now. My only 2 Livi purchases were pure disappointment. A new grind with rolled edge and heel hook, and a custom with a chipped toe/point upon arrival. Since I was a beginner, the vendor felt I was responsible for the damage although neither blade had seen a strop let alone the hones.
Like a friend says often about Italian cars (in agreement with TBS), that is just the sort of thing one might expect from Italian artisans. :shrug:
And, to think I was about to pull the trigger on his Loom Strop. I think I will aim for a Kanayama instead.
I think we have heard reports his son has pretty much taken over the razor making and that has been going on a few years now which is probably why these issues have come up. The Razors I have and have had from him go back several years and they had no issues. The QC on these newer ones seems to have slipped.
Same exact thing happened to me. When Lynn couldn't hone it I knew there was a problem. I was told when I sent it back that improper honing ruined the blade.
How, was the hone glowing red hot and ruined the temper? Them doing things like that will spread like wildfire....
I got the last Mastro Livi razor ordered by SRD. It is Damascus steel with bone scales, a real work of art. That was one razor I had to send back because of the blade not closing in the middle but hitting one side of the scales. Shave is excellent. The last one I got was the Mastro Livi 2016 club razor and that is the sharpest razor I have owned but it shaves very harsh. I tried using my Escher to smooth the shave with no results. Then I tried my JNat again no better results. I am close to Mastro Livi's age so I understand he is finding it harder to do things.Attachment 264679
I believe it was your Livi with stag horn scales that prompted me to ask Livi to make me a 7/8 Damascus steel with this type of scales.
It is a beauty to look at and gives an acceptable shave.
Not my only Livi Damascus steel and not my best Livi either; I found that his razors that are made out a single steel seem to provide a better shave.
Which brings me to the nightmarish 2016 Livi Club (CarboInox layered steel) razor, the one that never provided an acceptable shave and had to be discarded.
While neither your nor my 2016 Club deserve the lavish praise that is heaped from some corners on anything Livi does, your and my problems were different, which points to significant inconsistencies even in small batches of razors that were produced together, like the 2016 Livi Club edition.
Agree also on making an allowance for Livi's 76 years of age, but what I make no allowance for is the lame excuse that he used - apparently with others too - to evade responsibility for something he made and sold.
B.
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Did you ever try to send the Club 2016 razor back?
After sending back one razor that cost me $70, I would not bother or want to absorb additional expense over what I paid to get a custom made razor.
Yes, apologies, I thought I had made that clear.
In fact, this put me into a situation where I had paid import duty when the razor first arrived at my end, then Italian Customs claimed the full 21% Italian VAT and duty on the new price when this Italian made defective razor was shipped back (which I refused and which was ultimately sorted out by Livi), and finally I probably would have had to pay import duty again when the razor was retured to me; in addition to shipping expenses of about $100 for each of the three trips.
When Livi failed to stand by his product and came with his "overhonig" cop-out, I asked him to discard it, as it was nothing more than an overpriced letter opener to me that would only bring a sour taste to my mouth.
Of course, by then the razor had been honed several times to give an acceptable edge to a blade that was clearly unable to take one - not only in my opinion but also in the opinion of a well-respected razor manufacturer in Germany, whom I had asked to take a look at this razor and who told me the blade had been flawed from the beginning.
I hate to draw this out, as this thread started as a thread about Livi strops and has now morphed into a thread about Livi quality control, but I was clearly taken aback by Livi's unwillingness to stand by his product and failure to ask himself why on earth someone would need to hone the edge of one of his much acclaimed razors that had just been delivered.
B.
Wow this is new information to me that I am disappointed to read:( I only have one Livi razor and it is terrific, but it is also several years old.
I had the carbinox livi razor and it shaved but was very harsh. I sent it to jamie to hone and I no he had issues honing the razor which mirrored mine.
I just ordered the 2017 razor I hope it's going to be perfect shaver.
I did try to cancel the razor but the reply I got was it's not possible.
I have the club 2016 razor and signed up for the 2017 but decided against it. I will say last Christmas I purchased a Griffeta which shaves very nice. It is made from a block of stainless steel. I noticed when I got the 2016 razor it seemed to be ground to an extra hollow which gives it a lot of flex. I can get a decent shave with plenty of pre-shave and a thick cream. I prefer a blade 3/4 hollow like my antler razor from Livi. As for my Livi strops, love then. I once in a great while put W-40 or silicone spray on the threads. I have noticed his pricing has gone up substantially. The Damascus razor has doubled in price since I bought it 2 years ago. Wish my stock portfolio has done the same thing.
I got a full refund this morning. Which was nice of him.
I saw a picture of a 2016 club razor on Instagram yesterday that had been horrendously honed.
I must say it does look terrible. When jamie honed my carbinox and btw jamie is top honer, the bevel was not even due to the the razor. Jamie had chipping issues at the 5 k level and he told me to send it back. I never did as I did,not want the hassle. Mastro makes beautiful looking razors but it does seem there are guys that had problems with shave qaulity and on the other hand lots of guys that have great shaves and no problems.
I agree that my older Livi razors are better then the new ones. The only Livi razor i had to dump was the RWL 34. Terrible shaving razor that would not take an edge. Sent it to 2 of the best honers and they said they had them and also sold them because they wouldn't take an edge.
So, to take us back to the original purpose of this thread, if I may for a bit...
Phrank,
Would you mind giving us your opinion of the Livi loom strop now that you've had it (and presumably used it daily) for a month?
Would you buy it again, if you had it all to do over?
I am still deciding a) whether to get one; and 2) if so, small or medium.
I would definitely buy it again, and I'm glad I went for this loom strop.
It has been mentioned that this strop puts an incredible gleam on the bevel of the razor, and with few laps, and I've found this to be the case. I've stropped quite a few razors on this strop, as well as recently finished honing a couple of razors as well as refreshing quite a few, and the Crox side is fantastic, and then stropping on the leather certainly brings out a nice edge.
I had an interesting experience couple of weeks back, I had honed a razor and wanted to try it right off the stones, no stropping. And the shave was "meh"...I then gave it 40 laps on the loom strop, now in this case the strop itself doesn't matter, but for the first time I experienced the direct results of what stropping does.
The razor that had performed poorly but passably now was absolutely perfect, and it was clear to me that stropping the razor absolutely brings the bevel together and tightens to edge up considerable. Know I may be stating the obvious, but it was fascinating to actually be able to demonstrate how important stropping is.
The Livi Loom strop is very nice, you can slow down and pay attention to ensure the entire edge of the blade meets the strop - Mastro Livi's video on how he strops using the Loom strop was informative.
Having said that, I think in general a Loom strop is a great things to have, the Livi in particular as my only experience with a loom as the "human skin" leather is very nice, the bevel gleams after using it.
Also, Mastro Livi passes on a cool way to clean your strop, soft cloth, some lighter fluid, and wipe on direction, cleans the leather very nicely, and dries instantly, then rub with the palm - have cleaned all my strops that way.
It's a unique loom strop for sure, and glad I got it...
Darn your articulate, informative, enabling answers Phrank!!
Exactly as I feared, the strop seems to be perfect. Oh the SAD sets in...
:tu
Nobody ever get hooked on the first one...
I wanted to update something I said about the pricing being double what I paid for my Damascus razor from Mastro Livi. The quote I received a couple of months ago was for a Artisan Damascus Steel which is much more expensive then the Damascus stainless steel on my present razor. I feel Mastro Livi was kind enough to reply to my post with an explanation and that I should post the misunderstanding and say if I ordered the same razor I have today the price would be similar.
I just received my Mastro Livi "small" loom strop and wanted to give my early reviews thus far.
First of all, the service from the Mastro is outstanding. I placed the order about 9:00 PM CDT on Tuesday, and had the strop at my house by Friday at 1:00 PM. DHL does the international delivery (of course, not cheap).
As others have noted, the strop comes in a nice wooden box with a sliding lid. Intended to be kept in the box to keep it clean. Since I ordered the "small" stop, I thought the box would be about the size of a shoe box, but it's much longer.
I debated on small vs medium for the longest time but settled for the small after watching Mastro Livi strop some razors with a small strop on his videos. I am very glad I got this size rather than medium.
So far I've used the strop for 2 days. Yesterday I did so very slowly and very carefully (using Mastro Livi's method on his video) using just leather. Today I (slightly less slowly but still carefully) did about 15 passes on the CrOx linen side then about 10 on leather. This is a razor I've been learning to hone on with mixed results. The shave after this stropping reminded me of when I first bought the razor which was superbly honed prior to shipping. Not quite as sharp and smooth but getting pretty close!
Others have commented on the build quality of the loom strop. It seems very nicely done to me. All the screws and nuts were properly tightened. The handle rotates to tension the strop and this is a very convenient mechanism.
So -- I am impressed! It seems well made and it performs wonderfully. I look forward to getting more experience with it over time.
Thanks for everyones reviews. Mine should be with me tomorrow:)
Someday I will get one, but I'm still leaning toward the medium.
I have the small and it does fine. The large may reduce the number of laps needed but I don't see that as a big issue.
The Loom strop performs well. Is it any better than my Neil Millers or Kanayamas? Not that I can tell.
I could definitely see getting the medium if one has enough room in their bathroom/shave den. If nothing else, it is about 3" wide so don't need to do the x-stroke.
On the other hand, one thing that makes the "small" work pretty well is that, like all loom strops, you have the entire surface of the strop to use. You don't lose a couple inches of real estate at the ends like you do with a hanging strop.