I watched a old professional barber with a white coat on youtube strop a razor on a very very loose strop using hard strokes going 100 miles a hour. I know if I did that I could throw it in the trash. Was that a joke video or for real ?
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I watched a old professional barber with a white coat on youtube strop a razor on a very very loose strop using hard strokes going 100 miles a hour. I know if I did that I could throw it in the trash. Was that a joke video or for real ?
It's for real. As long as the spine and edge are in contact with the strop, with the leather deflecting at the spine, it will work effectively.
The reason it's generally recommended to people (especially beginners) to use a taut strop is that it's easier to strop without rolling the edge.
Yes, barbers used to strop like that. It was part of the show. However I never did see them use a loose strop. They kept it pretty straight.
If the vid was of Liam Neesan(sp) - its quite real. At the Waldorf? In Scotland? If so, he's amazing.
Gotta link to the Vid??
Here's a video of Liam Finnegan stropping:
Razor Strop - YouTube
Here's the interview that Obie did with Liam last year: Straight Razor Place - Conversation with Liam Finnegan
I do believe this is the perfect way to get a convex bevel. The strop is too loose. By stropping like that, razors need frequent honing.
As long as the strop deflection is at the spine, it's ok. I strop on a loose strop (maybe not as loose as Liam). I prefer the feel of stropping that way, and my edges hold up just fine.
Note that I am not pushing the method, especially for new guys. I just want to clarify that it's not harmful to the razor so long as it's done correctly.
Do you think that leather removes that much steel from the blade ?Quote:
Originally Posted by razorguy
Like HNSB, I've moved to a looser stropping method (also not as loose as the video) this seems to work fine for me as well. It comes down to what works for you and your razors
Perhaps the Interview that Obie did with the man who has many, many years of stropping and shaving experience would be helpful!!:shrug:
Straight Razor Place - Conversation with Liam Finnegan
By reading all of your comment, which I respect and I believe to be correct, it calls to my mind a simple question: what is stropping for?
And why there are so many different strops around? Stripe, paddle, loom and you mention it. Leather would not certainly remove steel from the blade (saved when you apply chromium oxide on it or other pastes) but however has the capability of "shaping" the edge, which is very thin and weaker than the spine.
Because man found different ways to hold straight and firm a stripe of leather, I believe it is simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by razorguy
You are right of course, but it is also a matter of fact not all strops work the same. The result you get from a loom strop is different from the one you get from a hanging strop. This is something which can be seen on a microscope, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by dudness
I've been thinking for a while about the often asked questions, and came up with a 'Top Ten'. I posed the question in the Mentor area about writing some easy to read, succinct articles on these oft asked questions. One was titled 'Do I need to Buy a Strop?' I wrote it and posted it for comment. Gugi wrote what is below (a quote from the reply) and I think it says it all, really. It makes very good logical sense to me; and previous to this I really was a little unclear myself; I simply knew it worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by razorguy
I think it's best to state clearly what the stop does because that also explains why it is so important. It is not a subject of opinion, and has been scientifically proven since the 1930s that the strop's main role is to maintain the edge free of oxidation. That's what dulls the edge, rather than mechanical deformation or 'misalignment of teeth'.
Everybody knows how fast the high-carbon steel of razors oxidizes (including the so called stainless steel razors), and if you don't strop for a few shaves the edge is basically rusted through.
There's another video of someone else (can't remember his name now, Mr Ham I think ) that I came across several years ago that shows a very exaggerated stropping style. He too was what looked like an old time barber. Arms were flying, razors were lifting, strops were flapping around, but I think it was effective (maybe...).
I've noticed that when I strop more quickly I lift the razor, particularly at the handle end - it's like a "U" shape in the vertical plane. Not necessarily the way to do it, just what has happened to me over time.
In any event, I suppose the point is that there are "different strokes for different folks". As long as you are hitting that edge and not damaging it.
James.
One opinion
WONDER PHOTOS REVEAL UNSUSPECTED FACTS ABOUT Razor Blades and Shaving (Oct, 1931) | Modern Mechanix
I will search out the other from Voerhaven that says that there is no visible difference from stropping under magnification, he was dealing with edges off the hones though so it isn't Apples to Apples
:shrug:
Hmm. I love thinking about this but it also annoys me. I like the article and the photos, and one could imagine the oxidation being removed and hence the edge being smoothed. However, I'd like to see the other article. I swear a newly honed razor without being stropped feels different (harsher?) than a newly honed razor that's been stropped. And if there's no visible difference, then WHAT the F is happening??? I'm freaking OUT man! Will there NEVER be an answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I completely agree on this and thank you, Carl, for this very useful post.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider
However, by watching the edge of the bevel on a microscope after stropping, it looks shinier and clean, but also more "straight". Over time, still by observing on a microscope, the profile of the edge tends to change.
Of course rust plays a detrimental role on the quality of the edge, but it is also clear that stropping makes the edge more efficient and the blade cuts better.
This is something I can tell myself. I am used to always do a three passes shave and I am also used to strop the razor before each pass. The razor cuts better and I notice a difference when I do not do that.
That wasn't my original text, I should point out, but I'm agreeing with it somewhat, though I have no microscope.Quote:
Originally Posted by razorguy
Do you think maybe the strop removes oxidisation, and that's what straightens the edge? That is, the uneven edge IS the oxidisation (rust) formed and stropping removes that rust formed in clumps and so takes the edge back to the straight edge is was prior to rust forming and disfiguring the edge.
Just thinking aloud...Surely there is also some 'burnishing' of the metal...
I am not an expert in metallurgy, what I can say is just the result of my observations on a microscope. The fact the edge looks shinier and clean after stropping it can certainly be the sign of rust removed from leather.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider
However it is also clear, at least to me, that stropping between passes improves the blade greatly and, I guess, it is quite improbable rust develops on the edge in just ten minutes or so.
Also the edge looks different: irregular before stropping, more straight after stropping. The linearity of the edge, I can tell, also depends on the razor itself, I guess, the quality and type of steel.
The profile too changes according to the type of strop being used. The hanging strop seems to make the edge more convex than a paddle strop, also by showing a different light reflection on the side of the edge.
Once again, I am not an expert in metallurgy, so I cannot speak in proven technical facts, but I simply say what I see on a microscope. And, as a matter of fact, it is amazing to see on a microscope the differences between razors and types of blades, including disposable cartridges and DE blades.
That's very interesting. I think I need to buy a microscope :pQuote:
Originally Posted by razorguy
The way Liam Finnegan does it probably evolved over many years. He may not have started doing it that way.
I actually like the statement in there and many other places that "Anyone who uses a SR knows Stropping does something good to the edge"Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider
Honestly over the years and after several lengthy tests of my own, here are my conclusions and I honestly could careless if anyone believes them or not :p
1. Burnish is a good word to describe the action to the edge from stropping
2. Convexing of the edge occurs only from improper stropping, and if it occurs at all from proper stropping it happens well after the edge is due for a touch up anyway so it is a moot point.
3. Stropping does remove micro-corrosion, I can see it on my White Linen strop
4. DE and Disposables use blade coatings to make their razors shave smoother we use a strop
5. Taut is the proper word used to describe how to hold a hanging strop
6. The flip is the most important part to learn when stropping
7. If you pay attention to the spine while stropping and make sure it moves equally and evenly across the surface all will be good
8. Slow the heck down and learn the technique before you try speeding up "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast"
9. Use a stropping pattern that makes sure the entire blade edge is hitting the strop
10. Finally... Don't overthink the whole issue, there is little doubt it works, relax and enjoy the shaves :D
I agree, Glen.
I have envisioned burnishing in my mind's eye.
If you think the edge is fragile, think how fragile the little ridges (effectively raised from the hones, and fairly easy to see under strong magnification) are. These poorly supported slivers of steel could easily be pushed around and molded somewhat like modeling clay (in my mind's eye). I suspect this theory may explain what a strop does that results in a blade feeling less harsh than if it were straight off the hone.
I could be way off, but for those who are frustrated trying to envision what is happening, simply accept my explanation as *absolute fact* and put your mind at ease :D
And enjoy the shave.
Am sure Glen is correct,wanna do a test?? try doing say 3 shaves,with the same blade without stropping it.
Than you will know the rest of the story:)
I remember seeing a post here maybe a month or two ago where a member had access to an electron microscope. In his pictures the effects of stropping were definitely visible. This was for me, the first (and only) objective evidence that stropping has an effect on the edge.
If stropping changes the surface on the sub-microscopic level, it would explain why the kind of leather is not too important.
The pictures gave me confidence that stropping was indeed necessary, and also helped me lighten my pressure used to strop. (understanding that if what was going on was at a submicroscopic level, much pressure was not needed- or desired)
To me, stropping before each of the three passes I usually do makes a big difference. It is not essential, but in case I do not strop before any pass I can tell the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
I do not have a electronic microscope, mine is just optical but has a magnification up to 1280x. However the effects of stropping on the edge are quite visible with a lower magnification as well. Never had the chance to see the same on an electronic microscope, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by larrybob
That's what's great about SRP. Ask a question about stropping and we'll even give you some advice about gardening. :tuQuote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
The use of leather to finish an edge is not confined to razors, being used in all trades that use edge tools and implements. This epiphany came hundreds of years ago and the practise of achieving a perfect edge is historically bound to the act of stropping. This wheel doesn't need reinventing ;D
PuFF
true to a point sir,but stropping a razor is a tad diff than other edged tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuFFaH
If you refer to just removing a wire edge, then yes. To get a fine edge to a tool, continued use of the leather will refine the edge. I use a very wide range of edge tools in my work as a shipwright and to gain the best edge you go through the grades of hone to finish on the leather the same as a razor. I see no difference in the process based on over 25 years of using both edge tools and a straight razor. I feel the gaining of a proper edge is the same no matter what the use the edge is put to.
PuFF
Leather is used for many things. It can be used as a polishing aid in a tumbler and most jewelers and watchmakers will have a big heavy lap wheel with leather covering it to polish jewelry and especially watch cases.
Gardening is simple give plants compost water and sun and they grow.Quote:
Originally Posted by HNSB
Any one in the Orange or Rockland counties want free french tarragon cuttings.
Just stick it in dirt away from sun for first week then in sun it will grow.
I'm about 1 year into straight shaving, and the 4 razors I own were starting to shave less than satisfactory. I honed them myself, but still was not satisfied, and thought I'd have to send them out for honing. I had always strived to strop with no pressure, then I read a post by Glen saying that you should strop with "some" pressure. I adopted this, loosened up on the strop just a little and presto! The Robert Williams that I thought would never shave well purrs like a kitten. I never would've figured this one change in stropping would made such a change, but it did. Thanks Glen.
There is always something new to learn about straight razor shaving, which is why I think I got bored with DE shaving but never get tired of the straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne1963
Liam Finnegan hasn't actually given anyone a straight razor shave in 15 years, so I think the flaccid stropping was just a part he was playing in a living diorama of that place they used to call a barbershop.
The YouTube video was made at least 15 years ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY46z9I90p0
Just funnin'
Last 10 minutes of my work day and I felt sort of punch drunk from boredom.