Mammoth tooth as scaling material?

I'm a big fan if exotic scale material and have come across alot if knives using fossilized mammoth tooth as handle material. Of course on the knives the material in pinned flat against a metal backing and is not freestanding like razor scales. My question is is the stuff, stable/strong/flexible enough for straights? Oils it be used with a backing and work? Or I this just a no go?

Anybody have experience working with the stuff? I have search around and haven't found much on the material relating to razors...

I assume it could be used like MOP, in ridged pieces pinned to a backing- but can it be used as a single souls piece?

I have worked with it, is true fossil, 100% minerialiezd (sp) you need a diamond saw to slab it.

Mammoth teeth, at least what I have used, are recovered from the permafrost. Some have been stabilized, please read, firmed up with resins. They can be easily cut with a thin wheel on an angle grinder, drilled with carbide burrs, shaped with a belt sander, and polished to a high sheen. The ones I have used are not fossils, and stink when worked, like sitting in a dentist chair. It smell like tooth being ground.

Down side. It is very brittle, usually separating along the enamel/dentine layers. There is zero flex. Even with a backing, they will pop. Only way I can see around it, would be to do it in tiles like MOP, and seal with CA glue.

PM me if you would like, I'll help out best as I can.

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Originally Posted by PierreR

Mammoth teeth, at least what I have used, are recovered from the permafrost. Some have been stabilized, please read, firmed up with resins. They can be easily cut with a thin wheel on an angle grinder, drilled with carbide burrs, shaped with a belt sander, and polished to a high sheen. The ones I have used are not fossils, and stink when worked, like sitting in a dentist chair. It smell like tooth being ground.

Down side. It is very brittle, usually separating along the enamel/dentine layers. There is zero flex. Even with a backing, they will pop. Only way I can see around it, would be to do it in tiles like MOP, and seal with CA glue.

PM me if you would like, I'll help out best as I can.

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Thanks so much for the input. When I get my hands on some I will contact you. I have one of my grail razors on its way and the scales are toast so I want to do something special. Funny you shoul answer this thread Pierre, I was looking at an ox horn scaled custom u did that kind of led me to this! Thinking about it objectively it may be best for stability and look the best if it is worked like MOP and have the sections separated by a thin piece of brass or maybe sterling silver.... Idk food for thought...

My money was def on pixel knowing a thing or two- :-)

Thanks guys for quick resp as always

As an afterthought, haven't seen it done yet, but am waiting on a shipment of thin titanium for a straight frame. Super spring, corrosion proof (afaik) and will polish to mirror lustre. Peening would prove problematic, but I have a way around it in mind. Touch base when your ready, we can chat.

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Originally Posted by PierreR

As an afterthought, haven't seen it done yet, but am waiting on a shipment of thin titanium for a straight frame. Super spring, corrosion proof (afaik) and will polish to mirror lustre. Peening would prove problematic, but I have a way around it in mind. Touch base when your ready, we can chat.

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That's cool, looking foward to hear what u have in mind. For some inspiration here's the blade I intend on putting it on- it's currently nestled under te il Yule time spruce (from Santa wife)

I have never sent anything out before as I do all my own restorations and scales, but in this case of have considered maybe sending it out for rescale, idk... Guess we'll see...

Hey even a chef eats out every so often right?

I will message you after the holidays, I have off after Xmas so I should have the restoration on the blade done by New Years.

Happy holidays Pierre, ( and pixel ;-p) and thanks again!

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Originally Posted by JoeLowett

That's cool, looking foward to hear what u have in mind. For some inspiration here's the blade I intend on putting it on- it's currently nestled under te il Yule time spruce (from Santa wife)

I have never sent anything out before as I do all my own restorations and scales, but in this case of have considered maybe sending it out for rescale, idk... Guess we'll see...

Hey even a chef eats out every so often right?

I will message you after the holidays, I have off after Xmas so I should have the restoration on the blade done by New Years.

Happy holidays Pierre, ( and pixel ;-p) and thanks again!

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Aha! It was you who got that one. :)
(Not that I even bid on it, but I had been thinking about it)

IMO, it's already been rescaled so one more isn't going to hurt anything. But those scales are restorable. I fix up old Sheffield scales like that all the time (and yes, I saw the other picture with the bug bites).

I wish I could tell you anything about the razor other than 'it's really weird'. I've seen one or two others with the strange tail and I just have no idea what's going on there. Maybe they were made for surgical prep?

Be that as it may, it's a fine, fine looking razor!

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Aha! It was you who got that one. :)
(Not that I even bid on it, but I had been thinking about it)

IMO, it's already been rescaled so one more isn't going to hurt anything. But those scales are restorable. I fix up old Sheffield scales like that all the time (and yes, I saw the other picture with the bug bites).

I wish I could tell you anything about the razor other than 'it's really weird'. I've seen one or two others with the strange tail and I just have no idea what's going on there. Maybe they were made for surgical prep?

Be that as it may, it's a fine, fine looking razor!

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Thanks Zak- yea I told my wife 'don't lose' I agree that the bug bites can be filled, I could have also thought about the replica route but idk I felt like either mammoth tooth or musk I horn would be a suitable match. I have a couple other tillotsons and the came with honey horn.

As for the blade, if its got you stumped, i doubt we'll ever know any more about it... yea the weird tail thing... Idk or where to even start with that one. The blade to me really resembled a W&B ottoman Egyptian & royal Windsor, which I have been after for a long time... I have a thing for tillotsons too so I was kinda a best of both work thins I guess. It's got a super hump tang and swayback looking spine. Ill post more pics 12-25.

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Originally Posted by JoeLowett

Thanks Zac- yea I told my wife 'don't lose' I agree that the bug bites can be filled, I could have also thought about the replica route but idk I felt like either mammoth tooth or musk I horn would be a suitable match. I have a couple other tillotsons and the came with honey horn.

As for the blade, yea the weird tail thing... Idk or where to even start with that one. The blade to me really resembled a W&B ottoman Egyptian & royal Windsor, which I have been after for a long time... I have a thing for tillotsons too so I was kinda a best of both work thins I guess. It's got a super hump tang and swayback looking spine. Ill post more pics 12-25.

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Yeah, I was just looking at the pics again, and I don't think those are even the original scales. It sits badly in them. Custom scales are the way to go. If I'd ever seen one remotely like it in original condition I might be able to help a bit more on the scales front, but your guess is as good as mine. Definitely one of the wilder antiques.

The blade definitely reminds me of the W&B Ottoman razors, but it's got some serious Loch Ness Monster going on that's all its own. Awesome stuff, and you don't see a lot of Tillotson razors out there!

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Originally Posted by JoeLowett

That's cool, looking foward to hear what u have in mind. For some inspiration here's the blade I intend on putting it on- it's currently nestled under te il Yule time spruce (from Santa wife)

I have never sent anything out before as I do all my own restorations and scales, but in this case of have considered maybe sending it out for rescale, idk... Guess we'll see...

Hey even a chef eats out every so often right?

I will message you after the holidays, I have off after Xmas so I should have the restoration on the blade done by New Years.

Happy holidays Pierre, ( and pixel ;-p) and thanks again!

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Well now rabbit! That is a different looking piece for sure! I could see that in black lip MOP, or mammoth. Either a set of near the bark scales, or tiled tooth. Odd to see a pivot so far below centre of a tang? Maybe it's the whole tail that looks low. Cool look either way!

Joe, you might want to cruise on over to Robert William's site. Two of mine are in Giraffe bone, but He's done mammoth, and prob. the most rare - Narwhale tusk. His Gallery link: Home - customstraightrazors.com enjoy. 'Serious eye candy. and fwiw, no razors I have hold an edge as well.

Joe I was thinking about trying to snag that at auction so as to prevent any member here from having to deal with it. A little known fact about that particular blade is that a well studied dictator used it and it's rumored to be cursed. The story goes that he sliced himself with it the morning he took his own life and his blood somehow worked into the scales and blade. Seems at times, while the unsuspecting user is shaving, his spirit jumps into it and the razor jumps out of the user's hand and slices him mercilessly. Now I'm a compassionate man, and am willing to dispose of it at no cost - simply PM me for my address and send it to me immediately for a proper exorcism and disposal. Pay no attention to any posts that may appear to show that blade in the future - and forget everything you remember about it.

Seriously nice looking blade! Good luck with the rescale and post pics.

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Originally Posted by AirColorado

Joe I was thinking about trying to snag that at auction so as to prevent any member here from having to deal with it. A little known fact about that particular blade is that a well studied dictator used it and it's rumored to be cursed. The story goes that he sliced himself with it the morning he took his own life and his blood somehow worked into the scales and blade. Seems at times, while the unsuspecting user is shaving, his spirit jumps into it and the razor jumps out of the user's hand and slices him mercilessly. Now I'm a compassionate man, and am willing to dispose of it at no cost - simply PM me for my address and send it to me immediately for a proper exorcism and disposal. Pay no attention to any posts that may appear to show that blade in the future - and forget everything you remember about it.

Seriously nice looking blade! Good luck with the rescale and post pics.

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The spirit and I hit it off well. Though the razor is still boxed and wrapped under my tree, I have cleared out a space in my attic for the apparition To settle in. We have set clear boundries- he can eat my food an drive my car- but it my razor- he's cool with that.... And oddly enough, so am I.

Well okay - but when it gets bad, just PM me! :gl:

Very nice razor! I was watching that one as well and bowed out before bidding. I was hoping someone here was the lucky winner. I can't wait to see that restored. Enjoy !

That is a very nice blade,keep us posted:)

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

That is a very nice blade,keep us posted:)

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After thinking about this I might want to hold off in the mammoth experiments gor this one . When I dream of what it looks like when it's done I keep on envisioning musk ox- any ideas where I can come about a 6" piece? Also is the horn tip similar to the bumps?

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Originally Posted by JoeLowett

After thinking about this I might want to hold off in the mammoth experiments gor this one . When I dream of what it looks like when it's done I keep on envisioning musk ox- any ideas where I can come about a 6" piece? Also is the horn tip similar to the bumps?

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You cannot find MO burl anymore,if you do it would cost about $350 to make a set of scales.
The tip sections are far diff, than the boss.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

You cannot find MO burl anymore,if you do it would cost about $350 to make a set of scales.
The tip sections are far diff, than the boss.

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Ouch. I'm still keeping an eye out, but I'm already pretty deep into the blade for a vintage- so that's prob just a *bit* outta my budget.

Guess I gotta keep my options open.
I think I would feel better at like $100-150 for the material. At the end of the day there's alot of awesome natural materials out there with in that price range- I know nobody out there appreciates natural materials like you do.... I guess we'll see where this one takes me.

More pics to follow next week

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Originally Posted by JoeLowett

Ouch. I'm still keeping an eye out, but I'm already pretty deep into the blade for a vintage- so that's prob just a *bit* outta my budget.

Guess I gotta keep my options open.
I think I would feel better at like $100-150 for the material. At the end of the day there's alot of awesome natural materials out there with in that price range- I know nobody out there appreciates natural materials like you do.... I guess we'll see where this one takes me.

More pics to follow next week

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You just do not see much anymore,The big Knife makers with deep pockets like Randell buy up the prime stuff before it hits the general market.
If you run accross some, buy it,is drop dead Beautifull material,this I made for my wife,
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...pendant001.jpg

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Originally Posted by JoeLowett

After thinking about this I might want to hold off in the mammoth experiments gor this one . When I dream of what it looks like when it's done I keep on envisioning musk ox- any ideas where I can come about a 6" piece? Also is the horn tip similar to the bumps?

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Joe, I know a guy who regularly gets MO boss from a supplier in Greenland. It isn't the cheapest stuff, but he has sold 7" wide by 3/4" slabs for reasonable prices. Let me know when you are ready.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

I have worked with it, is true fossil, 100% minerialiezd (sp) you need a diamond saw to slab it.

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No it's not. If it was 100% fossilized it would be like petrified wood-all rock. It simply hasn't been in the ground long enough. The process is in progress.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

No it's not. If it was 100% fossilized it would be like petrified wood-all rock. It simply hasn't been in the ground long enough. The process is in progress.

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Mine was like rock, totally fossilized,what you need to realize is that woolly Mammoths were on this earth 40 million yrs ago to as little as 10K yrs ago. depends on how old the tooth is.

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Aha! It was you who got that one. :)
(Not that I even bid on it, but I had been thinking about it)

IMO, it's already been rescaled so one more isn't going to hurt anything. But those scales are restorable. I fix up old Sheffield scales like that all the time (and yes, I saw the other picture with the bug bites).

I wish I could tell you anything about the razor other than 'it's really weird'. I've seen one or two others with the strange tail and I just have no idea what's going on there. Maybe they were made for surgical prep?

Be that as it may, it's a fine, fine looking razor!

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+1.... I was WATCHING that one as well (WHO WASN'T!) Pricey...BUT RARE! Glad to see it went to a real 'Sheffield Lover'...

WP34

Petrified or Fossilized?

I suppose it all depends on the subject, how long it has been buried and how.

Petrified fossils are 100% stone - all the organic matter has been replaced with minerals. Fossilized remains gradually have the organic components leached away and replaced by minerals in water, so there is a part-way process where organic and mineral matter co-exist.

Some mammoth ivory is dredged off the sea bed - it has never been buried. Some mammoths fell into tar pits, so there was never a question of water bearing minerals penetrating them. Some were buried and fully fossilized. Some were buried and partly fossilized.

Mastodons and mammoths may have been around for a very long time (5 million years ago), but they only disappeared about 10 thousand years ago in europe and 4.5 thousand years ago in Siberia. A small sub-group remained until 3.75 thousand years ago before full extinction.

The rather vague amount of time it takes to call something a true fossil is something like 10 thousand years.

Regards,
Neil

Bye federal law (U.S) all pre 1972 walrus Ivory is considered FOSSIL, go figure:)
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Hey Joe, I found some musk ox boss for a very decent price. PM sent.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Bye federal law (U.S) all pre 1972 walrus Ivory is considered FOSSIL, go figure:)
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The law in that instance uses the term Fossil in a different way.