Flap wheels part 2

As it turns out, the chattering I was getting with the flap wheels was partly due to the fact that I had my Dremel on 4 rather than 1, like I thought I did. :eek:

So my next question is this: How do you sand the actual blade with these things? I don't have any trouble doing the toe section, but the tang seems to get in the way when I try to do the heel. I am using a flexi-shaft. I'm trying to keep the entire length of the wheel on the blade and rotating off the edge so as not to catch it.

Thanks,
Josh

Josh,
Is this in place of doing the sanding by hand? At what point do you decide to use the flap wheel as opposed to doing it by hand? And what grits are you using? Sorry about the questions!

Thanks
John

Josh,

I do it first parallel to the blade and then perpendicular .....

It gives me faster sanding.....

On the back side, I have no problems as it's fairly natural. On the face side, the first 3/4" or so of the heel has to be sanded with the wheel rotating into the edge. That's very dangerous and you have to be extra careful unless you like getting hurt or even worse, damaging your razor :eek:
John, flap wheels are good for cleaning up major rust and minor pitting of your blades. It's much faster than hand-sanding and the 400 grit will give you a rough satin finish, that's passable. I left some of my blades like that, and I finished others by hand in higher grits (600-2000). Hand sanding is for the true perfectionist, even though Dremel finishes also look great (take a look at Jason's work). It really depends on your equipment, patience and expectations. I don't have the patience to spend 10-20 hours hand-sanding a blade lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

On the back side, I have no problems as it's fairly natural. On the face side, the first 3/4" or so of the heel has to be sanded with the wheel rotating into the edge. That's very dangerous and you have to be extra careful unless you like getting hurt or even worse, damaging your razor :eek:
John, flap wheels are good for cleaning up major rust and minor pitting of your blades. It's much faster than hand-sanding and the 400 grit will give you a rough satin finish, that's passable. I left some of my blades like that, and I finished others by hand in higher grits (600-2000). Hand sanding is for the true perfectionist, even though Dremel finishes also look great (take a look at Jason's work). It really depends on your equipment, patience and expectations. I don't have the patience to spend 10-20 hours hand-sanding a blade lol.

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Thanks Ilija,

That makes all the more sense to me now, and I can add some more items to my shopping list :)

John

Ilija,

OK, I can work with the wheel rotating into the blade; I'll just stay away from the very edge.

To clarify, this is a hollow ground W&B 6/8. There's a stabilzer on the heel, and I'm having trouble with the handle of the flexishaft hitting the tang and stabilizer when I try to work on the heel. Is there a trick for working on the heel like this, or should I just keep at it slowly?

Thanks for the help so far,
Josh

Just do it slowly. I actually go into the edge when I'm cleaning the stabilizer area and enough of the heel part to put the wheel down flat.

QUESTION: So, exactly how close to the edge can you sand with a flapwheel?














ANSWER: Not very!!!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...4&d=1173664000

Damn!!!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...1&d=1173664663

OK guys - there's a whole bunch of guys that have used these things before, and EVERY ONE OF THEM has said 'be REAL careful not to get too close to the edge!'.....well, I'm here to tell you, pay attention to these guys, because a whole lotta sh!t happens in, like, a nanosecond... this little 'incident' literally ripped the blade out of the vice, tore the suction mounted vice off the marble, and ripped the flapwheel out of the Dremel, to say NOTHING of scaring the holy bejeepers out of me!!! I had stuff flying 6-ways to Sunday, and when it finally settled down, I had ruined my Wade & Butcher project blade.

I don't believe I'll be doing THAT again soon!

YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.......AGAIN!

-whatever (...and still palpitatin'!...)

-Lou

Thanks for the warning and sorry about the W&B Lou. I actually even go over the edge itself but only if the wheel is rotating away from it. You can do about 90% of the razor with zero risk to yourself and the blade but that part close to the stabilizers is tricky and that's the only place where I don't go to the very edge while polishing.

Lou, you have no choice but to put that blade on ebay and claim it was made purposely that way. :D

Lou,

What speed were you using your Dremel at to cause all that destruction? I'm keeping mine at 1 right now, and I lay the razor flat on a piece of wood to support the edge. Then I try to let the wheel rotate away from the edge as much as possible.

Ilija,

Could you describe a little more fully how you use the flap wheels? How do you hold the blade, how much of the wheel is in contact with the blade, etc.

Thanks,
Josh

I have the wheel rotating perpendicular to the tip-tang axis, away from the edge. The razor itself is lying flat on the work surface (unless I'm working on the front portion, the spine and the top/bottom of the tang). The speed setting is 3 but it's the Motomaster rotary tool. The wheel is flat on the blade but I've noticed that I use the top portion a bit more.
Because of the direction of rotation of my tool, I can't get to the stabilizers properly on the face side, while the wheel is rotating away from the edge so I do it with the wheel rotating toward the edge but I can't really describe it in words. Maybe I should make a vid and post it lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Maybe I should make a vid and post it.

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Please do. Written instructions, while helpful, sometimes don't carry enough meaning. A video coupled with written instructions leaves no room for misunderstanding.

A video would be great.

I'm having a hard time visualizing this. So the razor is laying flat on the table, with the tang pointing to the right (for now). The wheel is flat on the hollow-ground portion of the blade, and the long portion of the wheel is parallel to the razor's spine?

Josh

It was a 1/2" x 1-1/2" 400 grit, 1/8" shank flapwheel operating on setting '4' on a '1'-'10', 5000-35000 rpm Multi-Pro, which would equate to oh....bout.....15,000 rpm or so, although, as soon as it touches the metal, it slows way down.....

...but really, I don't think the SPEED has much to do with it - you tangle with that edge with the flapwheel turning the wrong way and you're going south in a heartbeat....I don't care WHAT setting you've got it on.

...and THATS a FACT, JACK!

-whatever

-Lou

EDIT: A lot of responses while I was preparing this one! My blade was in a suction mounted hobby vise - it sounds like Ilija works with his blade mounted flush with his workbench. Unless you can be 110% sure that that one of those flaps on that flap wheel can't touch and grab the edge, I wouldn't try it. But hey, that's just me ......I'm still trying to find my bejeebers.

-w/e

-L

You have it right Josh. The shank of the wheel is parallel to the spine of the razor. With my rotary, it's when the tang is pointing to the right that I'm having trouble cleaning the stabilizers and then I have to risk the wheel rotating into the edge.

Lou, when the wheel is rotating away from the edge, then it can't catch it. In your case, I'm sure your wheel was rotating into the edge when it caught onto it and damaged that beautiful piece of Sheffield steel.

Agreed!
-Lou

Ilija,

I think maybe your flexi-shaft is a bit different than mine. The only place I can really do what you're describing is on the back of the blade, with the tang pointing to the left. I can get most of the blade that way, but on the face of the razor I find the handle of the flexi-shaft hits the tang and stabilizer. I end up having to tip the flap wheel and just use the tip, which doesn't make for a very even finish.

I'm practicing using my Dremel left-handed, too, which helps me keep the wheel rotating away from the edge.

Last night I restored a razor that's been sitting on the shelf for a long time--a 5/8 stamped "Edlis Barber Supply Co., Pittsburgh." I fitted it with a non-descript but very shiny pair of black scales. The 400-grit satin finish isn't super even, but it looks decent. I sanded the tang and spine to 2000-grit, then polished with MAAS. I'll have to post some photos tonight.

Thanks for the help,
Josh

Josh, that's exactly the issue I'm talking about. You can't get the wheel flat on the face side, near the stabilizers, without the wheel rotating into the edge because the tang is interfering with the flex-shaft handle. That's where you have to either sacrifice the finish or be extra-careful.

I'm thinking I'm going to use the flap wheels for the heavy lifting and Jason's drum sanders for the heel and edge. That is, if I can get them to quit flying apart on me... :D

What you're describing sounds the same as what I'm experiencing, but you seem to be able to get more of the blade than I can. I basically have to do the entire face with the wheel rotating into the edge... scares the crap out of me.

Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshEarl

... scares the crap out of me.

Josh

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It should!!

-whatever

-Lou

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarface

It should!!

-whatever

-Lou

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Be Geez Lou,

I think you've scared the crap out of me just looking at that. I may have to re think the whole flap wheel thing. It does look like you can still reclaim it though, just not the 6 or 7/8 that it is at the moment, hopefully anyway.

Was the photo taken in a new light box?

John

It may be best for all of you unsure about doing this to wait for my short video-tutorial. There is a good chance I could have something rough and dirty ready by tonight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnmw1

Be Geez Lou,
... It does look like you can still reclaim it though, just not the 6 or 7/8 that it is at the moment, hopefully anyway.

John

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I don't know....how long do you think it would take to hone that chip out on my Swaty?? (feel free to round up to the nearest decade!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnmw1

Was the photo taken in a new light box?

John

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u-u-u-u-u-h-h-h.....no....I know we talked about that, but I never got around to putting one together....no, the photo was taken on my workbench with me standing on a chair trying to get far enough away for the auto-focus to kick in with the lens zoomed all the way in and the flash on and one foot on the dog and ......well....I need to do one of those light boxes..

-whatever

-Lou

Just letting you gentlemen know that I have a very rough unscripted video ready. I'm trying to convert the MOV file to AVI and have it down from 80MB to the manageable size of 10 or so. Unfortunately the freeware converter's crap and it stretches the video stream 10x longer so I'm using a shareware one with nag lettering, but everything is still visible. I have a few things to say before I post it..
1) The carpeting is getting an overdue replacement with laminate this spring.
2) Make sure you keep the razor flat to the surface while working on it
3) Please pay special attention to how I start the face side of the blade.

Hello...

This is the video tutorial made by FireStart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLUDR2IrVLM

I'm trying to convert the file to upload it into the the reference information from this forum....

As soon as this video started playing, I started laughing. You know what my problem is? I got the wrong flap wheels.

Firestart said to get the 1.5" wide by .5" long ones. I interpreted this wrong; mine are long and thin, like cigarettes. Doh!

I'm off to Widget Supply to get the correct version. :D

Josh

Thanks Victor. Another thing I didn't do quite well on the video was compensate for the skipping. If you feel that the wheel is skipping, it's giving an uneven finish. In that case you have to go over the area again, but smoothly.

Great video, Ilija. Now I'm going to have to try to imagine your accent while I read your posts... :D

Josh

Nice Vid Ilja. Though next time, maybe consider doing a voiceover for the narrative. You got a little "lost" amongst the Dremel noises in parts.:)

Thank you gentlemen. It was more of a first trial run that didn't go too badly so I decided to keep it. Good enough to show the basics and I wanted to have something out there soon without learning all about video conversion and editing lol. These two blades will be going up for sale soon as they're nice little NOS half-hollows that needed to be cleaned up but have never been honed, used or scaled for that matter. I just have to give them a nice finishing run on the 400, slap on the scales and test-shave one before I can sell'em in good conscience.