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Picked up a vintage Boker today. Trying to decide if it's worth sending out for a professional restoration or just do it myself. I believe that is real MOP on the razor, and overall it appears to be in decent shape with only slight smile on the blade. Thanks in advance.
Chris
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That's a really nice blade you got there.
To answer your question, it depends on how confidant you are in your own restoring skills. It looks like the whole thing is in really good shape. If it were mine, I'd just clean it up, tighten the pins and hone it. Use it in its original form. But that's just me :)
+1 to Andrew's advice.
There are two separate questions here:
1) is it worth restoring? I'd say a resounding YES to that one. It's always hard to tell from pics, but it looks in reasonable shape. Plus vintage Bokers are fine blades.
2) should you do it yourself or send it to a pro? Only you can answer that one as only you know a) what exactly you'd like to have done and b) whether you have the skill set to do it.
But again, back to Andrew's point: there is nothing at all wrong with cleaning the blade up, honing, and putting it to use.
Whatever you decide, good luck - it will be worth it.
Thanks to both of you. The pins are pretty tight. The blade fits even in the scales. I'm really thinking of just cleaning up the blade and then honing it. So, I may take a buffing wheel on my dremel to it then hone it. I think as long as I keep a light touch I won't damage it and then can always send it out if needed. In the same lot, I picked up a Tongwha (South Korean) No. 77, a Fredrick and Reynolds Sheffield razor and something called a Purfoco razor. I'll practice on the lesser blades, then try the Boker. Worst case, I'll send the Boker to Lynn or someone and have it done right.
Whoa - please stop!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ccspir2
Using a dremel can be an absolute disaster when working on razors!! Two reasons: heat can build up quickly and ruin the hardening of the blade, and you can very very easily catch the blade on the dremel wheel and either destroy the blade or injure yourself.
It also just isn't necessary. Some cloth, some metal polish (Mothers, Maas, something like that) and some time is really all you need. You will do no harm to the blade and as long as you take care with your finger near the edge, you are much less likely to do yourself damage.
EDIT: some guys do use dremels, but IMHO it introduces an unnecessary potential for disaster to the process.
A *great* place to start for anything to do with restoration is this thread:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...wers-here.html
Definitely worth cleaning up
if this one is your first restro.... Then I would say "no" to doing it your self. I jacked up a couple razors before getting one even a little correct.... I wouldn't start on my first with a nice razor like that. get a crappy one first and make all the first timer mistakes before you tackle that nice one... It isn't as easy as it looks on youtube....
Wow, great info. Thank you all. First of all, I will not touch the dremel, and try some metal polish as suggested. Also, since I don't currently own the range of hone needed to properly reset the bevel and get the razor shave ready, I'll send it out to a professional and then try to keep it up with my barber hones and strop. I'll practice on one of the other razors I picked up since some of them, like the Tongwha are not at the same level of value if I do anything on my own.
Again, thanks for the great information. I really want the vintage Boker to stay as close to the fine condition it is still in today. I think a little patina on the blade isn't really a bad thing.
Read post #6
Follow the link
Search "Celluloid Rot" look closely at pic #3 in your OP
Learn the tests, follow the tests and double check befor proceeding with the thought of keeping the razor in those scales
This of course is from a so-so pic so it is so-so advice :(
Yes, it does appear to be a case of cell rot and if so, you should get the scales off that razor as soon as possible. That is a very nice blade and probably can be saved.
Those are some nice looking scales, unfortunately that style of faux tortoise is notorious for off gassing. Something in the chemical composition of how they were produced and more importantly stored causes the off gassing. Heat and stored in an enclosed space seem to be triggers, like a glass display case in direct sunlight.
You can slowly close the blade in the scales and see if the rust pattern on the blade matches the light and dark blotches on the scales, on both sides when fully closed. If the rust patterns and blotches match, that is pretty definitive. As said judging from these photos and without having the razor in hand, it does appear to be a real possibility.
It is very common on light colored “Ivory Imitation, Cracked Ice and Faux Tortoise from the turn of the century. It is one of the first things I look for when I see that style of scale on old razors. I saw some today at an antique show.
If so, get them off quick and save the blade. Do not store those scales with any other razors.
Don't store the scales at all. If the rust pattern matches the pattern on the scales, find out how to unpin a razor and throw the scales away.
Thanks again. They are not stored with any other razors, just picked it up last night and it's on it's own in the original box. Found some decent replacement scales online and will remove the scales, and send the blade to a pro for honing/cleaning up.
Thanks for all the great responses. I'm really learning a great deal from you all.
I tend to think that celluloid rot damage is vastly exaggerated
First off turn of the century scales are 100 years old. The damage we see took a very long time to occur.
I think it is more of a product of improper storage.
I have seen where one side of the blade is much more effected than the other. This has me beleiving the razor was stored for a very long time in one position and I would imagine that it likely was contained in some sort of container.
The damage to the steel will follow the curvature of the scales which indicates that as little as 1/4" of distance from the celluloid is safe.
Heat and restricted ventilation likely were contributors to the cell rot.
I beleive high humidity and long term storage with fingerprints has damaged far more razors than cell rot.
I lived in a very humid area for a couple of years and found that the gun cases that had so well protected my guns in other drier areas had become a curse.
The guns withour cases did much better in that area because they were better ventilated.
I think the same thing applies to razor steel.
I would bet that if a cell rot damaged razor had the damage to the steel repaired and given a thin coat of oil, that it could rest out in the open for the next hundred years without problems.
I would take that bet as the acids that are released from cell rot will eat right thru oil in a few days. Restore enough razors & you'll experience it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy51
I used to believe that before I bought a razor (I can't remember the brand offhand... Black scales with some nice bolsters...) andway, famous for cell rot.. I cleaned the blade and within a couple months the rot started to degrade the blade again.. It was an eye opener... I took the scales off and put them in a plastic bage, and the bolsters started rusting immediately.. ticked me off because I thought that the scales didn't look bad when I got the razor... I will have to rescale them when I get the time.... I wish I could remember the brand?.... It is sitting in the to do box.... pretty popular brand though....Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy51
From what I have seen, cell rot is a time bomb and a lot may depend on where you are at and the weather. What sets it off is most probably heat in an enclosed space. So a razor could be stored just fine for years, then a vendor picks it up and puts it in a glass enclosed case in a flea market or antique store in direct sunlight and it kicks off. I have seen razors at flea markets too hot to touch the steel. Don't know the temp, but it is damn hot.
Once started, it cannot be stopped, but when will it start? That is the question.
Lately I have seen quite a bit in the California sunshine always in a glass case.
Oh no another Global Warming Victim… Got to go and call, Al Gore maybe he can get a multi million dollar study done.
Cell rot is also a bit like a nuclear reaction. It starts very slowly. 1 neutron splits an atom and releases 3 more neutrons. Those 3 each split an atom and release 3 each. Those 9 each split 9 atoms etc. Cell rot is slow to begin, but once it is going, the reaction is going only 1 way. And whether you believe it or not, putting rotting scales near good ones triggers the same reaction.
From the evidence I've seen over the years in the restoration forum, cell rot is
1) highly destructive
2) irreversible
3) contagious
It is true however that leaving your razor open to air diminishes the effects, because the gasses evaporate instead of build up.
But of course, the comes with its own set of problems, and a razor that can never be stored properly anymore is not that convenient.
Good luck on the razor.
Roger
Wondering how the restoration is going?
I have a ThePerry Mason Company PURFOCO razor, vintage but was is in fantastic shape...excellent steel and great edge. I cant imagine a better razor being out there. It may not be a lessor blade after all.
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC3EVQ
The OP last posted on the forum in 2014, so that is likely a question that will never be answered...
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Great old razor
