Drilling out pins

Some time ago Glen asked for contributions to razor restoration. So tonight while squeezing in this piece I figured I'd contribute this. I'm sure it's been done a million times but here is how I drill out pins for what it's worth.

This Schwan Barber Supply Co. Aristocrat just came in today. It's mine. Basically in nice shape but the scales had to come off to do a proper restoration. Now you can simply file off the pins/washers but if you want to work on a blade, or keep the washers, or just not be bothered with the possibility of cracking a nice set of scales then drilling is the way to go I think. I like these scales and I wanted to preserve them and not booger them up. Yeah, you can make new scales, take off the bolsters and swap them. But it's not the same as having the originals with the bolsters inlaid in the scales. And I love fancy bolsters.
The first step that I do is to simply file the existing peened pin flat. Don't try drilling into a curved surface. The bit will squirrel all over the place and make a mess.
Once the pin has been filed flat you need some way to center the drill bit. What you need is a small divot for the drill bit to center on and not scoot all over the place.
For this I use a very small ball cutter in my version of a Dremel. It is very tiny and you really don't need one this small. For reference I have it against my finger and I could almost clean out my fingerprint with it.
But it does a good job. I have larger ones that do the job just as effectively. Also , a small stone will work just as well.

I'm showing both ends, but I did all four pins using this method.

Now once I've made the small divot for a drill bit to center on I head to the drill press.
When you chuck a 1/16th bit in the drill press don't leave much of the bit sticking out. If you leave any length of the bit sticking out it will want to flex, wander and shoot all over the place. Bury it deep so just maybe a half inch sticks out. This keeps it nice and rigid.
I'm almost ready to drill but first I put a large wood block on the table of the drill press. Being that a razor isn't flat I don't want to just lay it on the flat surface. I position the block so I can just catch the opposite pin/washer on the lip of the block. Why you may ask?
Well this way , if my centering divot isn't exact, or the bit does wander and a razor will not lay flat, I can roll the razor side to side, or tilt it front to back to get the drill bit to go where I want it to.

In these shots I'm again using my finger for reference as to how deep I set the drill bit.
In the next shots you can see how I can rock the razor should the bit wander off course and I can compensate for that and get it to go in another direction by rocking , tilting or rolling the razor to keep the bit drilling as closely down the center of the pin as I can get it.

Now at this point things should be going well. Be sure to use a bit that is sharp .
Also. If you're doing a set of plastic scales be sure to not let heat build up. Sharp bits cut cooler and require less pressure to drill. Pressure and a bit just spinning in the pocket just builds heat. And what happens if it's just a pin/washer set up on plain scales? You will melt them real quick.
Drill a bit then switch to the other end. Or just dip it in some water to keep things cool.
If you're drilling accurately you should be able to drill right through the center of the washers and straight down the pin.

The first two shots show I'm centered in the washer and drilling just the pin.
The last two shots show the washer just came right off ( actually they run up the drill bit) and it's just the pin left to drill.
You could stop here and your chances are very good at removing the scales as there is very little "flare" to the pin to keep the scales in place. Once the old peen is removed and the washers fall off , with care , the scales can be removed.

But I took it a bit further as you will see.

If you decide to push it further as I do here be forewarned! Now is the time the bit has the greatest chance of slipping out of it's little pocket that is in the end of the pin. If you're the least bit off and you're pressing the bit to go deeper the chances are good that it will slip off the end of the pin , drill along side it , and now you have an extra hole where you didn't want one. That's a mess.
The only reason I went further is the bolster was acting like a washer and keeping the scales tightly together. I needed to drill deeper than the surface of the bolster.
But either that, stupidity or over confidence kept me going as I saw I had a very good center. Lets face it. You're using a 1/16 bit to drill straight down on a pin that is the same size. A nice trick. But the other thing to consider is most pins aren't ramrod straight. They're bent and if you try to drill all the way, the chances are good that the bit will go off course and damage the scales.
I was able to drill over half way through the thickness of the scales and this allowed the scales to just fall off without any effort or prying to get them loose. I guess I got lucky.
But there is no real good reason to go this far. The goal is to remove what was left of the old peening job and get the scales off without any undue risk to them

For these shots in the bottom of the hole you can see the pin.
Once I got the scales off, and what was left of the pins I popped one back in each hole to hold it to show how centered I was. One was ever so slightly off but that amount of metal won't give much fight to keep a scale in place.

I completed the razor tonight and here is how the new pins and old washer ended up looking.
Aren't those bolsters just the bomb? And the entire razor, blued shaft, polished scales /blade is just so good looking.

Great tutorial, any chance you'd do one about unpinning collarless ivory scales?

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Originally Posted by Baxxer

Great tutorial, any chance you'd do one about unpinning collarless ivory scales?

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And how to tighten such pins without cracking the ivory....

The process for collarless/washer less pins is exactly the same as you see here.
File the head of the pin. Or use a small grinder to make at least a small flat surface on it.
Then make a centering divot. And then drill.

It will be the same situation as here where the collars popped off and I was just drilling the pin. You stop at the surface or just slightly under it.

Finishing the pins is also the very same process as is done with washers.
Snip off the pin just above the surface . File it flat so it only sticks out about the thickness, maybe just a bit less, of a typical washer and then just peen it.

The anxiety seems to come from the fear of working on scales that are a bit more rare/ valuable and have the feeling that since they are so thin will crack easily. It's actually pretty tough stuff.

All the methods are the same. The difference is our mind set in how we approach what we see as fragile scales. Really, they're just another set of scales to come off or go back on.

But I understand. My first set or two my heart was in my throat and I think I held my breath the entire time while chanting " Please don't break, Please don't break ".
After making , restoring and carving how many sets I've come to see it can really stand up well.

Many Thanks My friend, adding this thread to the Workshop Sticky thread


Done: Added to the Pinning and Un-pinning section :)


PS: I use a Twist Drill and a 1/16 bit to start my drill outs so yes there are a few ways the get them started..


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My pleasure. I hope there is something in this that might help someone .

I have a few of those as well and as you say, there are many ways to do this.
Be resourceful , use or adapt what you have at hand and enjoy the process. What's needed to build razors can be very minimal and basic. But the rewards are great.

Speaking of pins and washers.

I grabbed this pill holder for a buck to organize my washers in anticipation of my order of 500 of each.
Each bin is marked and I added the SKU to each as well. Makes reordering a breeze. Yeah. As if it's hard.
I get tired of opening those little bags after shuffling through the pile looking for the right one .
Just twist one of these open , dampen your finger and it's easy to get just the 5 washers you need to pin a razor.

Yes , you need 5 to do a typical razor.
Well I do. If I get out 4 like you think you'd need one always gets dropped and simply disappears somewhere. So I anticipate this and use 5.
Clever little trick huh?

With Ivory scales,I do the entire process by hand with a pin vise,Takes alot longer but you have great control.

The pin vice idea. How do you initiate the start of the hole. A smaller than pin sized bit or one the same size?? I've tried but the bit keeps sliding off and scratching the scales.(;-(

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Originally Posted by Johnus

The pin vice idea. How do you initiate the start of the hole. A smaller than pin sized bit or one the same size?? I've tried but the bit keeps sliding off and scratching the scales.(;-(

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The smallest bit you have,I go much smaller the 1/16,trust your eye, the eye always centers.

Indeed, a good tutorial :tu. I use pretty much the same method. I have found it is good to either file or dremel-drum the pin flat, if possible, so that the bit bites and does not slip off. Also, I use split-point cobalt bits. The tiny 'extra' drill at the tip makes it easy to just start drilling without any center divot needed. I bring the razor up to the bit and wobble the razor to get the bit to the middle. It is nice as one can go right thru the middle of the pin and wobble the razor to eat the flare out.
Good to share about saving the collars as we can. Sometimes they cannot all be saved, but having spares will help to keep it original looking!

Attachment 166134One other that I find helpfull, (Esp with Ivory) Duct tape or two layers of masking tape with a hole punched into it.
Will help with any slipping issues getting the pin out,also gives a sort of cushion when repinning and helps protect the scales while sanding.
Many ways to do this stuff,great tutorial above.

Thank you all for the tip about filing it down and then strting a hole with a ball bit grinder or a pin vise.
Question: I have seen people advise lowering the drill tip down to the razor and also bringing the razor up to the bit. What are the pros and cons of these approaches? I could see having a greater degree of control if you brought the razor to the drill bit, BUT I think it might be easier for a straight and clean hole if you bring the drill bit to the razor. Opinions?

Great information. Thanks for taking the time to type it all up. I have also heard of people using flush cutters to remove the pin but haven't tried it yet. I usually do the same as above. File flat, pilot divot, and drill until washer comes off or scales are able to come apart.

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Originally Posted by MattCB

Thank you all for the tip about filing it down and then strting a hole with a ball bit grinder or a pin vise.
Question: I have seen people advise lowering the drill tip down to the razor and also bringing the razor up to the bit. What are the pros and cons of these approaches? I could see having a greater degree of control if you brought the razor to the drill bit, BUT I think it might be easier for a straight and clean hole if you bring the drill bit to the razor. Opinions?

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Personally, I prefer to bring the razor to the spinning bit (low RPM). It would be difficult, to me, to have the pin straight against something stationary. It tends to walk off the pin and onto the scales. Also, corrections toward the center of the pin are easily made by tilting the razor around until center is being properly drilled. I throw a rag over the drill vise and use it to steady my hands while drilling, little pressure and letting the bit do the work. This way, you can 'feel' your way! As MyCarver pointed out, all we are doing is taking the top off to save collars, drilling halfway thru the scale, and getting the tapered part out so it can be disassembled. I usually keep wobbling on the taper and giving a light twist to the blade until it comes apart easily. Don't use a punch! Then, remove the blade, reach in and cut the drilled part off with side cutters, Twist and push the rest of the pin with needle noses out from the inside, gently! I would normally have my left thumb and index finger holding the tang, here, but they are taking the picture! :D


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Originally Posted by Steel

Great information. Thanks for taking the time to type it all up. I have also heard of people using flush cutters to remove the pin but haven't tried it yet. I usually do the same as above. File flat, pilot divot, and drill until washer comes off or scales are able to come apart.

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Yes, the flush cutter route is a scale-damager to me. Also, even if you will not be using the scales, the collars are worth saving!

do you have a list common pivot and pin washers list? where do i buy? mccmaster and carr or micro fast?
how do you make you new pins look so even and polished?

thanks .

ynot151, there is a great sticky here that lists mot of the fasteners you can get from Micro-Fasteners. http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...wers-here.html

Some people have even made up custom stamps and dies to manufacture thier own, but i wouldn't worry about that just yet :)

Thank you gentlemen for the excellent info. I have had the opportunity to clean up a few razors, but you all make me strive to produce a cleaner, more elegant result.

Use whatever method you feel most comfortable with. I've tried raising the razor to the bit but don't care for it. I feel it lacks the stability and control I like.
The block of wood has give to it and the opposite pin sits in there creating a small pocket that keeps it secure .
And being near the edge allows me to rock the blade in any direction to keep the bit centered. Watch machinists work. They never bring anything to the bit, especially hand held.
I have also tried the pin vice. Didn't care for that either regardless how sharp the bits may be. Between the pressure needed and the blade willing to move around here too I feel there is a loss of control.
Flush cutters? Nope.
Now this is only how I do it and YMMV. As long as you're comfortable with whatever process you use and the scales come off in one pice I'd say that's a win.
As to washers and pins?
1/16 rod and #0 washers are the most common size is say. Hobby shops should have both if you're doing one or two.
For greater quantities it pays to buy in bulk from the major suppliers. Here 100 costs the same as a half dozen at a hobby shop.

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Originally Posted by mycarver

Use whatever method you feel most comfortable with.

As long as you're comfortable with whatever process you use and the scales come off in one pice I'd say that's a win.

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Bingo !!! I agree, you really do have to try a few ways and one will match your style and your tools the best

Someone asked about Ivory. Here you go.
I forgot I did photos of the Bennet I just posted.
This is a good refresher for me as well because I just got a 7 day Ivory set of CVHs to do.

Same exact scenario. File the pin flat. Make a pilot hole or divot. Drill. And they fall apart.