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Hello, my not that old DOVO Palisander has developed a quite loose and floppy pivot pin. I like this razor and enjoy usinmg it as part of the regular rotation, hence "semi-retirement" or putting it up altogether are not oprions. The blade is so loose I fel uncomfortable using it. How can the pivot pin be tightened up some using simple tools (like a hammer and small drift perhaps)? Thanks for any advice.
You can use a tablespoon on a hammer head to peen the pin,be carefull,go slow.
Hi, Phoenix51.
Loose hinge pins are a common thing on razors. Close the bade between the scales, lay one of the pin heads on a flat smooth rigid surface (little anvil, big anvil, railroad track etc.) and apply - carefully - some LIGHT hits with a pinning hammer on the opposite pin head until the blade moves consistently again.
Be careful... I also advice to lock the blade between scales with a rubber band before performing any adjustement.
AGAIN... TAKE IT EASY... do not blow up anything... dozens of light "ping-pings" are correct... one or two "whams!" are wrong.
It's not rocket science.
All righty...seems I have both the tools and technology on hand. Off to the chunk of railroad tie with 2 oz. ball peen hammer and teeny, tiny Snap-On drift in hand. Now I know why I prefer screw-type pivots like Hart Steel, Tim Zowada, and Robert Williams use.
I believe Dovo uses the new "nail head" pins where only one side is peened. Peen that side.
Bob
I didn't know that. See, learn something new every day. I thought they were all the same!Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix51
So I wasn't imagining that. I thought I needed new glasses.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
Thanks Bob.
Bob is quite correct - they look like miniature tacks. It is not unusual for the assembler to not force the cup-setting tool down hard enough (you use or make a tool to force down the cup washer, usually a 3/32nd hole drilled in a bit of horn or similar), leaving a lot of pin between the scales. This unwanted length of pin buckles and twists, but seldom gets tighter - unless you really whack it and risk breaking the scales.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
I have taken apart and re-done so many Dovos assembled poorly like this that it is no joke.
If you have used a fair number of hits and the blade refuses to get tighter, this may be the cause.
Regards,
Neil
It is new in as far as they are not the vintage double cup washers, is all.
And FWIW of all the 'new' razors using this type of pin (TI, Revisor, the NOS and vintage makes that Revisor regrind and re-scale included, Dovo) that I have 're-pinned' (and that's an awful lot of re-pinned razors, I can assure you), Dovo is the worst culprit I Personally have come across..
The real old fashioned three pin razors are just as inclined to not have washers (eg Gotta, Bengall) at the plug pinning at all. Some (eg some Erns, nearly all ivory scaled razors, real tortoiseshell razors, etc) dont have washers at all, full stop.
Never seen a bent pin caused by cutting the pin too long in the thousands of those I have serviced, either. They had skills that other cutlers did not have when it came to pinning expensive materials like real, one-piece MOP and ivory in the 1800s and early 1900s. Thats what I consider to be old or vintage - no doubt YMMV.
Regards,
Neil
Yes, it is not just Dovo that use this type of pin, other current manufacturers do too. I believe it is a time shaving short cut in the manufacturing processes, nothing more and not an improvement IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyWetshaver
I have a few vintage 3 pin razors and none have these new type pins. The same holds true for my vintage 2 pin razors. I can only assume, admittedly I should not, that vintage razors with these new type pins were assembled from left over original blades and original scales or re assembled after cleaning with these new type pins. I would really like to know when these new type pins came into common use. I am doubtful they were in use in the 1960s-70s. Anybody know this information?
Bob
Purley done for faster production,I would bet with pneumatic punch.I hate them.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Yes, that is what I think also. Would you be suspicious of vintage straights with these new type pins installed?
Bob
I think being a mass production technique, you would not see Vintage blades pinned that way,DunnoQuote:
Originally Posted by BobH
Getting the pins is no problem, I have had some a couple of years ago from a Canadian vendor. I cut the heads off and used them in the more traditional manner of pinning.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyWetshaver
Yes, I have seen these new type of pins on what I would consider vintage straights but I would not necessarily think they were OEM at the time these razors were originally produced. I just have my doubts and would like to find out exactly when these new type of pins went into common use. Like I said, I doubt they were in use in the 1960s-70s on the production line.
Bob
Here is an old video of the Dovo Factory making razors. At 3.20 on the counter, is the pinning process, you can see the type of pin Neil is talking about and how gently and lovingly the pin is caressed into shape… NOT.
Although, she probably does hundreds, maybe thousands a day and has the touch down to a science.
To the OP, Phoenix, this is not what we are talking about for your razor, too hard a hit will crack your scales, start with some light taps, see if it improves. If needed, a few more… until it will stay open on its own. use just the hammer.
Peen the left side as you are looking at the razor, pivot end up and spine facing you. You should be able to tell, which is the manufactured side of the pin and which has the collar, though it may have been re-pinned.
A properly adjusted pivot pin that will hold a razor open makes stropping, so much easier and safer.
Often, a few light taps will make a world of difference.
Revisor Solingen stock these abominations of the pin world by the bucket load, should anyone want them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyWetshaver
I have no doubt that you and your mate have seen old blades scaled up using these pins - we all have, so no point in futile PMs.
As stated before, old TI blades have been scaled using them, Revisors current NOS ditto, Revisors refinished period blanks, ditto, Revisors 'rarities of the world' - ditto.
There have been other makers, contemporary with Revisor who have resurrected old names and rescaled them using the new pins (my source for this info is Thomas, owner of Revisor) and I have little doubt that the apparently inexhaustible stock of european Dorkos, Globusmen et al. share a similar 'provenance'.
No, don,t waste time on PMing someone who does not know one way or the other when there are many other more fruitful and positive lanes of enquiry open...
Regards,
Neil
Nice video, Euclid!
This video was released with another at roughly the same time. Yours does not have the publication info, but the other one states date of publication as 2011 which kind of fits in with that odd-looking cow-horn scaled Dovo featured in the video you linked to, which in relative terms is not that old.
With regard to the new vs old pins and Dovo, perhaps some insight can be had from Fritz Bracht who took over the running of the company from Dorp & Voos before WW2. Bracht had his own brand of razor before that - the well-regarded Tennis razor, and he shared a site and resources with Dovo for some time, running the Dovo works and running his own concern.
All Fritz Bracht early Dovos I have seen had the old-style pins on them. Two two concerns were merged into one in 1952, and Bracht's son-in-law Ernst Kirschbaum oficially took over the running of the company in 1953, so post 1953 Fritz Bracht Dovos and Tennis razors had old-style pins.
The information about when Fritz Bracht stopped having any input into the company is sketchy, and the fact that Dovo retained his name long after he was gone does not help much. So, for Dovo at least, we have a start point, but which still needs revision.
Regards,
Neil
I have peened pivot pins ending up with warped scales. Even keeping the blade between the scales while peening did not prevent this from happening. Any advice how to deal with this problem?
I think you have to try and determine the cause of the deflection, possibly by using one of those mini threaded pins and bolts and tightening and examining what is happening bit by bit.
When I have had this problem in the past it was mostly due to either the rake set on the tang or a slight warp in the tang. As the pin is tightened it forces the scale to come into closer contact with the warped or raked tang, throwing off the geomety. Either allowing for this by sanding the inside of the scale to a certain plane or bu partially seating a washer in a hand-cut rebate to keep things parallel helps - but is a lot of work.
Regards,
Neil
Thank you for your observations, I will check my razors soon to see what happened exactly.
I have always thought that peening causes the pivot pin to bend slightly. That way one of the scales is pulled to slightly towards the tail and the other a bit towards the toe of the blade.
Well now you know some more...Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyWetshaver
What about dates? There is hardly any information regarding dates on razors - they don't have the date they were made stamped in them. Even when you have a name, the person after whom the firm was named could have been dead for donkeys years, so the name wouldn't tell you much.
As for Erustas, it seems that the majority (based on an image search on Google) do not have the tack-type pins. As for dating them - well, there is hardly any information available on the company other than they used steel from the Bohler Steel Company, so the best you can do is use a gut feeling, which isn't very helpful. I have seen Erustas that could possibly span 1930s to 1950s, but I don't know - I bet your mate doesn't either.
Attachment 173759
Attachment 173760
Attachment 173761
Attachment 173762
The above look somewhere around 1950s to me. That would have the partial backing of Bohler Steel, who diversified in specialist alloys in the 1950s in a big way.
And they don't have 'those' pins...
Attachment 173763
Attachment 173764
The first pic shows a pin set, complete with the hideously thick (IMO, of course) friction washers. You can clearly see the pin is a small tack or nail.
The second picture shows the nail head - the small circle in the centre equates to the diameter of the pin and the head is formed so as to resemble a washer, but is obviously not. Very clearly these are not used in either of the Erustas pictured above.
The end with the cupped-washer looks decent enough, so it is surprising that the modern trend seems to be to put it at the back of the razor and leave the ugly abortion pin-head (IMO, naturally) showing on the front.
I have used them but they are best used (IMO yet again - gets tedious, doesn't it) with the nail head cut off and another cupped washer used instead.
Regards,
Neil
This might help as well. Sometimes attempting to tighten a pin will cause the blade position to shift from the middle of the scales to one side. Usually, hitting on the opposite side of where the blade is touching the scales will get the blade back to center, YMMV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
Have fun.
Your razor was made in 1948,Jan 14 to be exact,just so happens the day I was born,now you know the rest of the story:)
Whoa, Jimmy! Neil is spot-on, IMO. What did he say to make you go off like this? No one doubts Mycarver has restored some. No one doubts you are somewhat intrigued by this crappy way of assembling a razor by your posts. No one doubts that these pins are often used on old razors as they are readily available. No one doubts they are used on Dovos and other later Geman razors. Just because they are found on everything and anything pinned does not mean extensive research and 'PM's' must be done to prove some mute point. As far as who has had some razors across the bench, you have no idea whatsoever, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyWetshaver
So just relax. If Neil says the sky is falling, better duck. Or not! I certainly shall! :)
Never fails to amaze me how something as simple as tightning a pivot can run into a huge amt of posts.
This is simple basic stuff guys.
No doubt, Bill. I hope the OP got some info which will help!Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Best info is post 5 from Bob which tells how the OP's razor is probably pinned. At best, only a 'half' tightening job is possible as the other half of the pin is fake. Nothing to be done about it. A gentle effort on the side with a collar is all which can be done to tighten the pivot. After that , repin properly with proper collars and rod is advisable, IMO.
Atta Boy, Jimmy! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyWetshaver
I agree, pins and pinning are a simple thing. Everyone can see that, I hope.
What is not a simple thing, to me, is the way some half baked ideas are touted by people who are ill informed, and how they try to perpetuate this misinformation that in reality they know little or nothing about.
And yes Jimmy, I do mean you. As long as people like you post personal beliefs masquerading as well informed info, then I will gainsay it every time I come across it.
You can personally attack me in your previous infantile manner when you are corrected for posting what is at best ill informed rubbish, but that will not stop me, as I feel strongly that those who have a genuine thirst for knowledge deserve facts, a level playing field in fact, on which to build their own well researched knowledge base on. To those trying to make a name for themselves by posting arrant rubbish I have no duty or time for you, but I will set the record straight for those who are genuinely interested in knowledge rather than themselves.
Not very gracious of me, I know, but this is not meant to be an apology.
There is nothing more I care to add to the subject, so I will move on now. There are plenty of other fools in need of correction elsewhere!
Regards,
Neil
Atta Boy, Neil! :D
Nope, they are like Theirs Issard.Quote:
Originally Posted by mglindo
