Correcting blade geometry... your preferred solution?

Hi all,

On my most recent razor, I noticed that I could only get the first half of the blade sharp (toe side), and that the reason was an imperfection in my grinding technique (shoulder/stabilizer area was too low, or in other words, the hollow was 1-2 mm narrower at the heel than the toe). I think I also have a wide spot in the blade in the middle, where the smile has a bit of an uneven curve and would 'teeter' on this wide spot if set on a flat surface (like checking for a frown).

I went all the way back to a DMT 220, King 1200, and Norton 4/8 to re-shape the spine (grind through the shoulder) but this of course has left me with lots of hone wear. It's closer to even, but still likely not perfect. So my question is this: where you have a blade that has minor imperfections, do you prefer to fix by heavy honing, re-grinding, or working around it with rolling X strokes, etc?

Honestly

The fix is directly related to the issue at hand, so I read the blade, then apply the fix that will do the least amount of damage and still correct the issue...

So pretty much the answer is "I do what the razor tells me to do" that way I am not fighting the edge but rather working with it.

I have never fixed imperfect geometry on a blade. Through various honing gyrations I have managed to hone them up. I guess you could say it was more like living with imperfect geometry than fixing it. Wonder if that makes any sense?

Bob

I voted re-grind, but it really depends on exactly what the problems of the individual razor are. From an aesthetic standpoint I like my edge to follow the spine, in other words the blade width is equal at all points. I also make the spine thickness equal from heal to toe. That way the bevel angle is constant for the whole blade. Any workaround will be there to deal with at all subsequent touch up or honing sessions.

Like Charlie says "I don't make mistakes, I just make smaller razors".

Don't fix it as I have only sanding
So use multiple layers of tape and wear it down to shape then hone with a clean top layer when happy

I have been in the same boat. My goto is to set the bevel, and go from there, the bevel flats will show you where you need to grind. Even if you have to set the bevel by grinding on a flat platen or on a flat surface with coarse sand paper.

It is hard to let go of a razor. The next razor you grind will be better and so on and so on. I would mess with it a bit and see if I could fix it, then move on and make another blade and chalk this one up to learning. I have a box of malformed and screwed up razors, I learned a little bit form each one.

Chalrie

I'm with Glen in that it depends on the blade. I would tend to say rolling x, if that is what the profile needs, but it might be something else. That said, I don't ordinarily hone for anyone else, and I stopped buying razors in that kind of condition years ago.

I see I'm the first one to go for a lot of honing so I guess I'll try to explain. Off course this isn't my go to method, if a roling X-stroke works on a smiling edge for instance I'll simply use that, and sometimes with a very slightly bent spine a thin hone can work but I don't realy like that solution.

when correcting a slightly bent spine with a lot of honing the bevel will not look even (on one side you'll see a smile and on the other a frown) and you will see a similar patren on the spine, you can see this in the pictures below, personally I don't mind the honewear and this solution allows for easy tutch-ups

here you can see thick honewear in the middle on the spine
Attachment 177370
here the main hone were is near the heal and toe
Attachment 177371

Thanks, guys. I honed the bejesus out of this razor to try to get it all worked out.

In the end, I managed to get a lot of hone wear and some flat surfaces, but I think I ground harder I to the heel spine than the toe spine on one side so I have a new problem. C'est la vie.

I needed diamond to work through all the steel though, after trying all the stones from 1200 through 8000 and a coticule and a phig with some mystery nagura. In the end, I got through the wedgy metal with diamond psa sheets on flat marble tile (15 micron down to .5 micron) and a lot of elbow grease and swarf.

However, one of the slurries (I reckon) has the edge slightly worn in from the plane of the bevel and resulted in a useless shave. The irony is that this blade was wicked sharp before the 'repair'. Oh well. Maybe I'll learn a little more from this blade yet.

Thanks for the ideas!

For reference:
Attachment 177398
Attachment 177399Attachment 177400Attachment 177401
Attachment 177402

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atchbo

Thanks, guys. I honed the bejesus out of this razor to try to get it all worked out.

In the end, I managed to get a lot of hone wear and some flat surfaces, but I think I ground harder I to the heel spine than the toe spine on one side so I have a new problem. C'est la vie.

I needed diamond to work through all the steel though, after trying all the stones from 1200 through 8000 and a coticule and a phig with some mystery nagura. In the end, I got through the wedgy metal with diamond psa sheets on flat marble tile (15 micron down to .5 micron) and a lot of elbow grease and swarf.

However, one of the slurries (I reckon) has the edge slightly worn in from the plane of the bevel and resulted in a useless shave. The irony is that this blade was wicked sharp before the 'repair'. Oh well. Maybe I'll learn a little more from this blade yet.

Thanks for the ideas!

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How many razors have you honed successfully? I ask this because I have a feeling that you should store that razor away and wait until you truly know what you are doing. My reason to coming to this conclusion is you state the heavy hone wear...a new honer should always learn to hone with tape to save the spine from hone wear. I didn't participate in your poll because every razor has it's own personality and must be honed "how the razor needs it". No different than how you are going to drive your automobile or if I gave you the keys to my Suburban, you would drive them differently or hop a lot of curbs. Tape is your friend & perfecting a rolling x stroke is something you must learn if you wish to continue honing as it's your friend and a mainstay in honing.

Ouch!!!! Looks like a lot of steel is now gone forever, sad it looks like a nice blade. Tc

Yep. Went through quite a lot of steel. To be honest, I don't think my grind was perfect, so this may have been necessary, although I may have gone through more steel than the pros to get it sharp. I had a high shoulder, and was determined to level it out, which is why I ground so far (and why I used the DMT220 so much). I also don't have a DMT325.

As for my track record, I have honed my W&B 3-4 times, sharpened a few ebay test razors to nice shaving condition, and another homemade blade or two (one that a friend uses and says it's sharper than his other Dovos). In any case, I think I may regrind this razor to minimize the look of the hone wear (make the spine and bevels narrower). I love the shape of this blade... it started out as a trace of my W&B but I embelished a bit along the way, and it's probably 1/8" or more larger in all dimensions than my W&B. My next task is to try again and make smaller blades and deeper hollows. Still need to slow down my belt for that though. The Grizzly is a beast for fine work.

Thanks for all your suggestions, folks! This is all a bit like fly fishing. I only wish I'd started 20 years earlier!

gssixgun, I like this reply but feel it is out of reach for a lot of us, those of us who are not professionals and who have not honed hundreds of blades and will never hone hundreds of blade. Your reply is kind of Zen and I get it but for a lot of us new to the stones I would say: if you are in over your head, reach out to your mentor if you have one if not.....fine a razor with fewer problems, or send it out. Compared to sharpening a knife honing a razor is a breeze....until you find a problem razor and just identifying the problem is a problem.....thanks to you and many others we have vast resources here and a lot of nice helpful people. So 'doing what the razor tells me to do' is most likely unattainable for most of us. Many thanks for your time and videos and I believe your sincere interest in this worthy and fascinating pursuit. QUOTE=gssixgun;1385228]Honestly

The fix is directly related to the issue at hand, so I read the blade, then apply the fix that will do the least amount of damage and still correct the issue...

So pretty much the answer is "I do what the razor tells me to do" that way I am not fighting the edge but rather working with it.[/QUOTE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WW243

gssixgun, I like this reply but feel it is out of reach for a lot of us, those of us who are not professionals and who have not honed hundreds of blades and will never hone hundreds of blade. Your reply is kind of Zen and I get it but for a lot of us new to the stones I would say: if you are in over your head, reach out to your mentor if you have one if not.....fine a razor with fewer problems, or send it out. Compared to sharpening a knife honing a razor is a breeze....until you find a problem razor and just identifying the problem is a problem.....thanks to you and many others we have vast resources here and a lot of nice helpful people. So 'doing what the razor tells me to do' is most likely unattainable for most of us. Many thanks for your time and videos and I believe your sincere interest in this worthy and fascinating pursuit.

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:p

Yeah you might be right it is a rather "Zen" answer but what do expect from a guy that has been a Martial Arts instructor for over 40 years :D

The solutions have been clearly delineated all over SRP from the MM test, to using tape to buffer the effects of a mis-ground razor, the real problem is impatience but nobody wants to hear that, they want the fast and dirty fix to their immediate problem, usually like this thread started without even the assistance of pics..


This I feel was particularly well stated by you, and deserves to be repeated... (Emphasis is mine :p )

"If you are in over your head, STOP reach out to your mentor if you have one, if not STOP find a Mentor or a razor with fewer problems, STOP or send it out to have it accessed.

Just identifying the problem is a problem for most people .....

Grinding the crap out of a razor STOP !!!!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...bing-over.html


Also we need to keep in mind that the OP was talking about a home built razor, which I admit I sure didn't catch on to until much later in the thread, which would have maybe change the whole direction of the thread from the beginning.. Again few pics would have helped in the first post