My horrendous morning with a J A Henckels frog

suffice to say it was a absolute shocker of a morning for my poor, poor razors.

this was how the J A Henckels 'frog razor' arrived to me a couple of weeks ago. the package was also beat to all hell. i thought i would be able to epoxy it back together after i had taken it apart to clean because they were relatively clean breaks with only a small visible seam.
Attachment 179100

its not easy to see but the washers on the outside of the scales on the razor end were the same size as the washers on the inside. after seeing this i tried to go as slowly as possible.
turns out the pins were also oversized. with a really wide mushroom peened head. they look like modified nails.
after filing the top off, then moved on to drilling (with oil). The pins were very hard. (high carbon in the nail compared to normally softer brass)
well after that it went down hill. the bottom pin came out ok, but the spacer has been glued to the scales.
then when i started on the top (another nail again) it got worse. the scales cracked again and the brass detail fell off.
the razor itself came off no trouble (at least one thing went ok) the the pin/nail was stuck in the otherside of the scales.
i supported the rest of the obviously fragile scales on the vice with a small gap to tap the pin through. 4oz ball peen hammer and went and cracked the scales again (and again).
this the aftermath.
Attachment 179101
from what i can tell the razor must have been left in the sun by the previous owner and have become pretty brittle
here is the pin/nail next to my brass rod which is 1/16.
Attachment 179102

Sorry for the long intro. here are my questions
is it still possible to save the scales with epoxy or another method? (i have my doubts but any ideas are welcome)
how can i get the rest of the brass details off the scales themselves? because they are what attracted me to the razor in the first place.
what should i have done differently?

thanks for any help, believe it or not i am not normally this destructive when unpinning, it was rather frustrating watching the razor sort of crumble as i went.

cheers.

Bummer. The scales are not original to the blade. I think from a Geveso(sp) or something. Look in the workshop about removing inlays and bolsters using acetone. New scale time!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...wers-here.html

I would remove all the bolsters and inlay and make another set of scales. Those I don't think are salvageable. As for removing the brass you can soak the scales in acetone and everything should pop off. Just be very careful removing them because they are thin and can snap easily. I usually use a pin or something small and sharp and slowly pry the bolsters off. I have also put a set of scales in boiling water till they were really soft and removed the bolsters that way. The scales shrunk making it easier to remove them. Not all scales will respond the same to the boiling water though. I have had some really brittle scales that broke really easy as well. Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Bummer. The scales are not original to the blade. I think from a Geveso(sp) or something. Look in the workshop about removing inlays and bolsters using acetone. New scale time!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...wers-here.html

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that makes sense, seeing as it was not a well done re-pin. what would have the original scales been? (more out of curiosity)

and if i remove the inlays is there someone that can make new scales for me if i send all the bits away? i don't have the skill or the equipment to do it myself. or am i better off with a different set of scales entirely and save the frog to make a more original razor down the track?

I have fixed scales before with breaks like yours. First I epoxy them together with 5 minute epoxy and let them cure over night. Then with a dremmel I cut two groves about1 inch in length on the inside of the scales parallel to each other. Be sure to overlap the original crack. Cut a pin from your wife's sewing box for each grove. Place in grove and fill with epoxy. This give a little added strength to the fix. Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dooey

that makes sense, seeing as it was not a well done re-pin. what would have the original scales been? (more out of curiosity)

and if i remove the inlays is there someone that can make new scales for me if i send all the bits away? i don't have the skill or the equipment to do it myself. or am i better off with a different set of scales entirely and save the frog to make a more original razor down the track?

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Yah. I figure they are old, brittle celluloid. To far gone. Most old Henckels came with plain slick-black Bakelite or Celluloid/plastic. That's a cherry blade.
Sometimes, we fellas rescale them! ;) Shoot me a PM and perhaps I have something for a mate with them bolsters.
You could CA the frog back on. While not correct, the frog is cool!

The scales don't go with that blade so if you go through all the trouble of making new ones they will still be wrong for the blade. The blade for those scales should read "96 UTICA KNIFE & RAZOR CO UTICA. N.Y. MONTREAL CANADA Other side: FROG MANGANESE STEEL GERMANY " or something along those lines :<0)

Attachment 179119

Man that was brittle. I hope you were wearing eye protection, it looks like it exploded!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

The scales don't go with that blade so if you go through all the trouble of making new ones they will still be wrong for the blade. The blade for those scales should read "96 UTICA KNIFE & RAZOR CO UTICA. N.Y. MONTREAL CANADA Other side: FROG MANGANESE STEEL GERMANY " or something along those lines :<0)

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Nice work, Pups! Dig the frog! :rofl2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Yah. I figure they are old, brittle celluloid. To far gone. Most old Henckels came with plain slick-black Bakelite or Celluloid/plastic. That's a cherry blade.
Sometimes, we fellas rescale them! ;) Shoot me a PM and perhaps I have something for a mate with them bolsters.
You could CA the frog back on. While not correct, the frog is cool!

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what do you mean by "CA the frog back on"?

also is it worth doing a rescale for it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dooey

what do you mean by "CA the frog back on"?

also is it worth doing a rescale for it?

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Superglue!
Def worth rescaling or making new scales. Better blade than modern production razors, IMO.

HA i think super glue will be effective as trying to wish it to stay together.

who makes new scales?

The bolsters are super glued, (CA) onto new scales. It is a bit of work, as the scales have to be made to fit the razors and fitted to the shape of the bolsters.

There are a number of guys doing restores check the classifieds/member services, GSsixgun and 10pups have tutorials on bolster removal and replacement and I think a couple of others as well. Both do custom work.

As said be careful with the bolsters, they are thin and fragile.

The frog rises again!!!

sorry for the rushed photos.

Attachment 184192 Attachment 184193

Attachment 184194 Attachment 184195

A special thanks to Sharptonn for the provision of the new scales.

He's back! Long Live the Frog! :rofl2:

Good Go, Dooey!

That turned out nice. Good job

I'm hoping for a Frog Club even though I don't have a Frog. It'll be a small club but they will all be close: Those Friggin Frogs