By wedge, I mean the spacer type, not the blade grind. :D Now that we have that cleared up, here is my question. Have any of you guys ever figured out a good included angle and fat end thickness for your wedges?
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By wedge, I mean the spacer type, not the blade grind. :D Now that we have that cleared up, here is my question. Have any of you guys ever figured out a good included angle and fat end thickness for your wedges?
Nope. I just wing-it. And fiddle til I'm tired of messing with it. But I'm sure there is some technical equation that someone has.
I know it's not what your lookin for, but that's what I do. Let's see what they say, I'm qurrious as well.
the angle of the wedge is the same as the angle of the of the tang. The thickness is where it gets tricky as it needs to relate to the thickness of the tip of the razor at the point of contact with the scales.
This is a good question because I have never seen a detailed explanation :<0)
The thick side is where I start. Calipers on the razor where I want it to come to rest. Sand the wedge to get around an 1 1/2" of spread between the scales on the pivot end. This can vary depending on the material of the scales. Test pin and see how the razor moves. It should get tighter when the blade is parallel with the scales. This helps keep the scale from moving when your honing and stropping.
Now there are guys that have been doing this a lot longer than I have but this is what I have discovered on my own.
Will be watching to see what I may be missing !
As a general rule, the angle measured from pivot pin to thickest part of tang that needs to sit within the scales - should be the same as the angle on your wedge. In practise this need not be exact and is mostly achievable by eye rather than measurement.
The wedge width will depend on how far in the scales your blade is designed to fit. Obviously if you design the scales but then put in a fatter wedge you run the risk of the edge protruding through the bottom.
So it would a good answer to the angle question be if you are looking for precise repeatability, then you set the angle of the wedge and the taper of the tang the same? I would think that you could do that ver consistentlywith say the surface grinder attachment that Travis Wuertz sells or something similar. The reaming quustion would be how thick would your big end be and the answer to that would be the good lawyer answer "it depends? ":)
Wedge starting thickness would also depend on the grind and the thickness of the stock used ofot he balled, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by UKRob
JMHO for production of wedges for a mass produced "identical razor" the surface grinder may be beneficial ( a mill may be better for the longer side travel of a length of wedge material),
but you would still need to make the prototype & work from it if all the blades are the same.
as soon as you start looking at individual razors the above mentioned criteria's will come into play eg. width/grind of blade for set in, tang thickness, length of sales & scale material used as some don't like a big flex.
my rule of thumb is to try & make my scales about 6-8mm (1/4-5/16") each side wider than the tang at the pivot to allow a bit of flex dependent on the scale materials flexibility, wood the lesser then horn & acrylic more
YMMV
Okay , look at a razor closed. Note how the thickness of the razor (where it hits the scales) is the same thickness as the wide part of the wedge?
SO if you make the wedge wider, then the razor is going to drop farther down into the scales. (hopefully not out the bottom of the scales)
If you make the wedge thinner, then the razor will not go down into the scales as much. (the blade may hit the sides on the way in)
Make one and see what you did/need to do next time.
Start fat and work your way thinner. Then start working the angle.
" ofot he balled, right? " ....... I have no idea how to answer that 1 :<0)
I just angle mine down, test fit, and aim to modify the thickness in order to get a closed sitting height that I'm happy with. I make sure that there is a wedge to the wedge, but don't pay much attention to how much so.
Repeatability is only worth something if you make the same razor multiple times.
Otherwise, each one is different. I just eyeball it and adjust as needed.
Apologies for not replying earlier -we moved house recently. However, someone already answered the question about wedge thickness - it must be the same as the width of the blade where you want it to rest on the scales. As such, it doesn't matter what the type of grind is - near wedge or full hollow - you still need to the scales to perform a stop on how far the blade fits in. The width of the wedge or spacer dictates that.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM61
Actually, wedges are wedge shaped.
If there is a bit of space between the point and the wedge, The wedge can be a bit smaller because the scales get futher apart when the distance from the wedge gets bigger.
Start at about 1/2 the thickness of the Tang at the Pivot hole, for your material
Sand that down to a wedge shape to about 1/2 the thickness of the scales
Adjust to fit because of the length of the scales you made
Problems are normally that your wedge is TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO thick go measure the Vintage ones for comparison most are less then .065" at the end of the razor..
Spacers vs Wedges: Spacers do not allow the razor to Flex correctly, again go look at a Vintage razor and see what I am talking about.
All this is quite obvious if you just take the time to see what those old farts did over all these years
This is a thread I did recently but I can't find it on here so here is a link to it over at TSD, this might help explain with PICS to what everyone is telling you
Some Scale Building Hints: | TheShaveDen
Edit: I did NOT address the Scales themselves here although I do in that thread, regardles on material used it has to be thin enough to be slightly flexible...
Thickness of the wedge does depend on the grind though.
If you have a larger razor, and you want to blade to close to a position close to the spine, a thin wedge will be too thin.
The wedge should be thick enough to allow the hollow to settle on the scales clost to the spine.
All good info above,but in the end wedges need to be hand fitted to the scales and the blade,is no set angle that will work for all.
Thanks to you all! :rock: The angle info is the first I have noticed and it gives me a starting point to work from. I've made a lot of scales but now I can get closer to what i need sooner.
Thanks again!
~Richard
A set angle won't work or a set THICKNESS of the wedge? Most of the handles that I see on here seem to have a pretty "splay angle" to the scales before they are pinned.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
You may have just provided a good formula. 1/2 tang thickness at the pivot hole for the thick end, 1/2 thickness of the scale for the thin end for the rough wedge blank. Now all that we have to figure out is the length of the wedge to get the finished thin end final thickness down to about 2/3 of the thick end like you did on those ivory scales. Then we shall have our angle. Of course, we still have to figure out that angle of the taper of the tang from the thick part of the spine to the pivot. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM61
That is in the adjustment for length, be careful thinking that this is an exact science, I am simply giving you a starting point :)
If you start with using that formula then half the battle is done, the rest is fitting it to each razor, and Mock up Bolts and Nuts from Microfasteners or the like will be your new BFF's
Good Luck and please post pics
Will do, but to be completely honest, you may have convinced me that my first few should be western kamisoris. :rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun