Is this a good candidate for 1st restore?

Hey guys, I'm still an SR noob, but coming along nicely. I currently have 1 New Boker (Arbolito), another new Boker (Elite) sitting at the post office waiting to be delivered, an 1850-1890 Geo Wostenholm & Son from the classifieds here sold by wolfpack34, and a 1900-1930 Worcester also from wolfpack, but have been looking for a razor to try my hand at restoring. I wanted something that was in fairly good restorable shape to start with, but at a decent price in case I don't do a very good job.

Here is what I came up with:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ps0irzhqxa.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psi3lv8c0c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ps44isxpas.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psbqjep6t2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psejdbfdeq.jpg

Wow, I just noticed while uploading these pix that there are no pix of the back side of the blade. I can't believe I didn't notice that before. Hope that isn't a costly rookie mistake.

Anyway, I paid $30 shipped. Do you think I got a fair price? Assuming the back side of the blade is similar to the front, does this look like a good candidate for a restore? I plan to do all the sanding/polishing by hand.

Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.

By the way, any guesses as to the era this came from? I'm guessing that from the style of the engraving on the tang, that it's early/mid 1900s, but purely a guess.

Thanks,
Murf

I think this is a perfect candidate for restore. I think it really just needs some honing, the rest is nice patina.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I think this is a perfect candidate for restore. I think it really just needs some honing, the rest is nice patina.

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Really? You wouldn't clean it up at all? I guess it would be cool to have something that looks it's age as long as it's structurally sound and shaves well. And if the Wosty I have is any indication, it should have that ability. I definitely don't like the over buffed razors I see on ebay.

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Originally Posted by murf

Really? You wouldn't clean it up at all? I guess it would be cool to have something that looks it's age as long as it's structurally sound and shaves well. And if the Wosty I have is any indication, it should have that ability. I definitely don't like the over buffed razors I see on ebay.

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It has such nice patina I think it is worth saving.
Now if you want to make it shiny, then it will clean up pretty easy I think.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

It has such nice patina I think it is worth saving.
Now if you want to make it shiny, then it will clean up pretty easy I think.

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Well, now you have me thinking I may just clean it like I would a vintage DE razor, get it honed and possibly have the pins tightened or replaced if it even needs that, and call it good...hmmmm...

OK, so next question. If I do decide just to clean it up a bit and leave the patina, does anybody know if Scrubbing Bubbles would be safe? That is my method of choice on vintage DE and SE razors, but would it hurt the scales on a straight assuming these are plastic?

I'm solidly in the save the patina camp. An even gray coating with little or no black spotting is pretty rare and you've got one. I was lucky enough to get one once too and also lucky to be brought round to see the value of it.

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Originally Posted by Hart

I'm solidly in the save the patina camp. An even gray coating with little or no black spotting is pretty rare and you've got one. I was lucky enough to get one once too and also lucky to be brought round to see the value of it.

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Wow! That's Beautiful! I'm affraid mine might have a couple of little spots on the toe of the second picture that may be rust forming. They look a bit red to me. How would I go about removing that without ruining the patina?

If I did decide to clean and polish I would be careful. I cleaned ok but when I went to polish I got a little to rough and the blade cracked. but then again it was a extra hollow ground . little to almost no pressure with simi-crome (probably not spelled right) and a cotton cloth would brighten it up a lot. if left with the panita in tack it would look good also. nice razor.

Murf,

You have a lovely razor :)

+++1 on leaving the patina !!

I have two (2) Wade & Butcher 'For Barbers Use', 8/8 : I had one 'restored', and instantly regretted it :(

The blade and scales had been superbly polished and finished, but all trace of 'character' had gone - it looked like a brand new razor - not a bad thing in itself, but when compared with its twin and its lovely patina, I felt it had lost something :(

Have fun :)

Best regards

Russ

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Originally Posted by mainaman

It has such nice patina I think it is worth saving.
Now if you want to make it shiny, then it will clean up pretty easy I think.

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Originally Posted by Hart

I'm solidly in the save the patina camp. An even gray coating with little or no black spotting is pretty rare and you've got one. I was lucky enough to get one once too and also lucky to be brought round to see the value of it.



I got those already like that!

Attachment 201908

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I agree with Stefan & Hart. I would just leave it be & keep the history on it!
Some Mothers or some Maas would probably clean it up some since I don't see any pitting but you do what you want. It's your razor. If you want a pretty one, keep your eyes open for one like these:

Attachment 201934
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I think your choice is to do nothing and just oil it or remove the patina. Any polishing compound such as Maas or Mother's is going to remove the patina. You have to decide, once you get the razor, if you can live with a few spots.

The polishing compound can be used to clean up the pins and washers. A good approach is to lay your cloth on a table and rub the razor pins on it. That lets you get a lot of polishing action in just a few seconds. If you need to get in tighter around the rim of the washers, try a toothbrush with the polish. You can use the polish on the whole of the scales, being careful not to rub the steel.

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Originally Posted by Hart

I think your choice is to do nothing and just oil it or remove the patina. Any polishing compound such as Maas or Mother's is going to remove the patina. You have to decide, once you get the razor, if you can live with a few spots.

The polishing compound can be used to clean up the pins and washers. A good approach is to lay your cloth on a table and rub the razor pins on it. That lets you get a lot of polishing action in just a few seconds. If you need to get in tighter around the rim of the washers, try a toothbrush with the polish. You can use the polish on the whole of the scales, being careful not to rub the steel.

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That's exactly why I did mention that I would just leave it be!

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Originally Posted by engine46

That's exactly why I did mention that I would just leave it be!

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And I think that's how I'm going to approach it...unless there is red rust, then I'll need to make a decision about how far I want to go.

Thanks guys!

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Originally Posted by murf

And I think that's how I'm going to approach it...unless there is red rust, then I'll need to make a decision about how far I want to go.

Thanks guys!

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Yeah...............just leave the historical patina on 'er! Once you remove that old patina, the history is gone forever. That's why I didn't do anything else to this Greaves blade. I did sand it but it had some rust on it but other than that, i made some new scales for it & left the rest of it alone.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...blade-now.html

I disagree. Patina is just aging. It doesn't add anything imo. This razor has no visible pitting damage, and should restore nicely.
With handsanding and polishing, you can get this blade to look mint again. And that is wonderful to look at.
Also, and I really mean this: if you want to learn to restore, this means you must learn to restore :)
In other words, don't do the minimum you can get away with, as some people suggest. Go the whole 9 yards. That is the way to learn stuff. Dive in and swim. Sure. You will make mistakes, and learn from them. That is how we all learn and make progress. If you don't make mistakes while learning, you're not trying hard enough.

So, my 2cts: take it apart and make it shine!

As I previously mentioned, it's your call. If you go ahead & take Bruno's advice, get some Mothers or some Maas & polish it up. It WILL look really nice cleaned up! You can take it apart & clean each part individually. If you know how to use a Dremel correctly, you can really make it shine like I did here:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...me-polish.html

That's only if you know how to use a Dremel on a straight razor or you can ruin the blade forever. If you don't know how to use a Dremel, get Lynn's dvd. He shows how to use one in there. That's how I learned. I haven't ruined a blade yet (knock on wood)! If you are not experienced with a Dremel, don't attempt it! Once you clean 'er up, it'll be a beauty!!!! In the link, I didn't disassemble the razor but some you can get away with. If you take it apart, it will be better & you stand less chance of screwing up the scales. Usually if i leave one together, I put something on the scales like masking tape just in case ya accidentally touch the buffing wheel on the scales.
Bruno knows his razor's so if you go that route, just take your time & be careful & it will turn out to be a gorgeous straight razor!
I just looked at it again & it's a candidate to be a mirror shine when done!

I'd advise against using a dremel. Check out my handsanding guide in the wiki or here in the restoration forum. That is the best approach to first restorations, because the chances of failure are drastically reduced, and you get a good feeling for the steel and the abrasives you use. If you hand sand before polishing, the results will be significantly better than if you just polish.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I'd advise against using a dremel. Check out my handsanding guide in the wiki or here in the restoration forum. That is the best approach to first restorations, because the chances of failure are drastically reduced, and you get a good feeling for the steel and the abrasives you use. If you hand sand before polishing, the results will be significantly better than if you just polish.

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That is why I caution people about using a Dremel if they don't have experience with one. I agree with you there. I also do hand sanding. I have packets of 220, 240, 260, 320, 400, 500, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500 & 3000 grit wet or dry sandpaper I use in progressions.
I am just lucky with my Dremel & it is variable speed so I don't make burn marks or overheat a blade. Like in my blog, I always do it near my sink so if it does start to get hot, I can cool it right away. I agree with you! The razor will turn out beautiful if plenty of time is taken. It will probably polish out by hand. I always try out by hand first & if that doesn't get it, I get my Dremel out but that's just me. Other's have their own ways & have success that way. I only suggest a Dremel if one has done it that way before or has experience with one, otherwise do not attempt it. Thank you for your input here. I think he can clean it up w/o a Dremel. I suppose I should have never brought that one up!

So, in the end, I decided to keep the patina on the blade and just clean it up, sanitize it, give it an oil bath for a few hours, and put as good an edge on it as I could with my limited experience. The edge came out very shaveable.

I did pretty much refinish the scales without taking it apart though. They weren't flat, meaning the razor wouldn't stand up on it's own like it is in most of these pictures because the back scale (non-stamped side of the blade) protruded further than the front scale making it tip over forward. I sanded the back scale even with the front and reshaped it to match the profile of the front scale, then sanded both with a progression of wet sanding starting at 1000 and ending at 3000, then polished them with Flitz. Oh, and tightened the pivot pin. I'm very happy with the results.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...pszbpifvsl.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psyoaeazdt.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...pslpendfgp.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psuug8gx0c.jpg

Much thanks to all for the advice and guidance!:beer1:

Murf

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I disagree. Patina is just aging. It doesn't add anything imo. This razor has no visible pitting damage, and should restore nicely.
With handsanding and polishing, you can get this blade to look mint again. And that is wonderful to look at.
Also, and I really mean this: if you want to learn to restore, this means you must learn to restore :)
In other words, don't do the minimum you can get away with, as some people suggest. Go the whole 9 yards. That is the way to learn stuff. Dive in and swim. Sure. You will make mistakes, and learn from them. That is how we all learn and make progress. If you don't make mistakes while learning, you're not trying hard enough.

So, my 2cts: take it apart and make it shine!

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While I agree with a lot of what you say here Bruno, I also like old things that look old. To expand on that, I mean something that looks well seasoned and well cared for and is completely functional, as opposed to neglected and rusty and broken down. In my limited time here, it seems to me that finding something of this age, in this condition, is somewhat of a rarity and I don't want to waste this opportunity to take advantage of that. I'm thinking that there will be other, better, candidates for complete restore.

Thanks for the input,
Murf

From what little I have read, and what I am witnessing with the one resto I have done. The patina will come back over time, will it not? Might the only difference be in how "evenly" it comes back to the blade when in the hands of someone who will care for it?

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Originally Posted by Orville

From what little I have read, and what I am witnessing with the one resto I have done. The patina will come back over time, will it not? Might the only difference be in how "evenly" it comes back to the blade when in the hands of someone who will care for it?

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I'm sure it will come back, but from what I've been able to find, this razor is from somewhere between the late 1800s or early 1900s, so it would take more than 100 years to get the patina to this level.

To me, it's kind of like erasing history and only the events that occur from this point on are looked upon as real. Now, if you have a really ugly history, you may wish you could do that, which I see as being like fully restoring a neglected, rusty razor. But if your history is pleasant, you would want to preserve that.

Just my opinion.

I think it looks really good, you did a great job on the scales.

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Originally Posted by murf

So, in the end, I decided to keep the patina on the blade and just clean it up, sanitize it, give it an oil bath for a few hours, and put as good an edge on it as I could with my limited experience. The edge came out very shaveable.

I did pretty much refinish the scales without taking it apart though. The weren't flat, meaning the razor wouldn't stand up on it's own like it is in most of these pictures because the back scale (non-stamped side of the blade) protruded further than the front scale making it tip over forward. I sanded the back scale even with the front and reshaped it to match the profile of the front scale, then sanded both with a progression of wet sanding starting at 1000 and ending at 3000, then polished them with Flitx. Oh, and tightened the pivot pin. I'm very happy with the results.


Much thanks to all for the advice and guidance!:beer1:

Murf

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That's a beautiful razor - guess I'm in the camp of, patina is another expression for dirt and gunk...I prefer my razors with a mirror finish, like right when they were new, which may have only been a satin finish at the time - but dirt and gunk free! :)

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Originally Posted by murf

So, in the end, I decided to keep the patina on the blade and just clean it up, sanitize it, give it an oil bath for a few hours, and put as good an edge on it as I could with my limited experience. The edge came out very shaveable.

I did pretty much refinish the scales without taking it apart though. The weren't flat, meaning the razor wouldn't stand up on it's own like it is in most of these pictures because the back scale (non-stamped side of the blade) protruded further than the front scale making it tip over forward. I sanded the back scale even with the front and reshaped it to match the profile of the front scale, then sanded both with a progression of wet sanding starting at 1000 and ending at 3000, then polished them with Flitx. Oh, and tightened the pivot pin. I'm very happy with the result

Much thanks to all for the advice and guidance!:beer1:

Murf

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Congrats my friend, you did a fantastic job on it. Your next one will turn out better & the one after that even better. Job well done! Wait until you make some scales. Here is one of many. I just kinda finished these the other night & mocked up the razor. I still need to make a wedge for it & finish it but for now, I have some very small Allen head screws holding it together which I bought from Micro Fasteners:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ml#post1503949

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Originally Posted by Phrank

That's a beautiful razor - guess I'm in the camp of, patina is another expression for dirt and gunk...I prefer my razors with a mirror finish, like right when they were new, which may have only been a satin finish at the time - but dirt and gunk free! :)

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I get that and I can certainly appreciate a well restored razor. I bought 2 razors that were beautifully restored by wolfpack34 (Mike). Mike does a level of work I can only hope to attain someday. I just bought a razor yesterday that is too valuable to me to attempt myself, and it's not in that well cared for patina state, so I'll be sending it to Mike to restore for me. I will, however, be acquiring more razors to work on myself.

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Originally Posted by engine46

Congrats my friend, you did a fantastic job on it. Your next one will turn out better & the one after that even better. Job well done! Wait until you make some scales. Here is one of many. I just kinda finished these the other night & mocked up the razor. I still need to make a wedge for it & finish it but for now, I have some very small Allen head screws holding it together which I bought from Micro Fasteners:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ml#post1503949

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Thank you Sir. And those scales are beautiful! I think a brass wedge would look great in them.

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Originally Posted by murf

Thank you Sir. And those scales are beautiful! I think a brass wedge would look great in them.

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Thank you very much!

Here's one if yo haven't seen it yet. I made bleached white bone scales for it & they are very thin like Ivory but strong. You can't really see it but I made a brass scale for it as well.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...ml#post1422154

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Originally Posted by Phrank

That's a beautiful razor - guess I'm in the camp of, patina is another expression for dirt and gunk...I prefer my razors with a mirror finish, like right when they were new, which may have only been a satin finish at the time - but dirt and gunk free! :)

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I hope you can take this with good humour, but every time you refer to patina as dirt, I want to grab you in a headlock and make you take it back :D

I see the natural patinas shown here as no different than induced patinas such as bluing or using ferric chloride on Damascus steel. The only difference is the natural patina on steel is a matter of a great deal of time and luck. It will never be as even but I see it as every bit as beautiful.

There's nothing wrong with valuing gleaming metal above all else and I respect your taste, but a good natural patina is anything but dirt.

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Originally Posted by Hart

I hope you can take this with good humour, but every time you refer to patina as dirt, I want to grab you in a headlock and make you take it back :D

I see the natural patinas shown here as no different than induced patinas such as bluing or using ferric chloride on Damascus steel. The only difference is the natural patina on steel is a matter of a great deal of time and luck. It will never be as even but I see it as every bit as beautiful.

There's nothing wrong with valuing gleaming metal above all else and I respect your taste, but a good natural patina is anything but dirt.

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All due respect here, I had to laugh! :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Hart

I hope you can take this with good humour, but every time you refer to patina as dirt, I want to grab you in a headlock and make you take it back :D

I see the natural patinas shown here as no different than induced patinas such as bluing or using ferric chloride on Damascus steel. The only difference is the natural patina on steel is a matter of a great deal of time and luck. It will never be as even but I see it as every bit as beautiful.

There's nothing wrong with valuing gleaming metal above all else and I respect your taste, but a good natural patina is anything but dirt.

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The phrase goes back to an old thread where some back and forth went on about patina and polished finishes...bit of humour... oh and at 6'4", not many have been successful in putting me in a headlock, except my wife that is....:D

Patina Smackdown 2015!!
BE THERE!!!
In this corner, armed with Maas,, phrank-in-stein. In the other, armed with nothing more than moisture and a low pH,, Hart-less...
I love the different takes and passions on here. 6'4" phrank, that explains the propensity for big steel to a degree.
Cheers on a great first project to the OP as well!

Hartless VS Phrankinstein, LOL

We're going to wreck your backyard at the next get together.

I'm wearing my cape, lederhosen, and Birkenstocks!!! Arggghhh!

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Originally Posted by MikeB52

Patina Smackdown 2015!!
BE THERE!!!
In this corner, armed with Maas,, phrank-in-stein. In the other, armed with nothing more than moisture and a low pH,, Hart-less...
I love the different takes and passions on here. 6'4" phrank, that explains the propensity for big steel to a degree.
Cheers on a great first project to the OP as well!

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6"4"!!!!!! Andrew, we are friends right? Andrew, you still there????
Hello?????? Phrank???? Andrew???????
OH SH*T!!!!!!!!!!

Steve ,
alls fair in lather and shave
and look on the bright side, if the knock each other out, theres more razors for the rest of us

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Originally Posted by engine46

6"4"!!!!!! Andrew, we are friends right? Andrew, you still there????
Hello?????? Phrank???? Andrew???????
OH SH*T!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by whoever

Steve ,
alls fair in lather and shave
and look on the bright side, if the knock each other out, theres more razors for the rest of us

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At 5"7" he's got a good 9" on me so I know he's my friend.................I just had to do that!:w

man can't stand, man can't fight, how you cut him down to size is a different story
pun possibly intended

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Originally Posted by engine46

At 5"7" he's got a good 9" on me so I know he's my friend.................I just had to do that!:w

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