First grinder for restoring straights and making scales

Time for a new challenge: restoring razors. I am looking for one machine that I can use for both restoring blades and making scales.

I am looking for a little grinder. You got wheel grinders, grinders with both a grinding wheel and a belt, some of them come with water cooling.
What would be the best for a beginner? What width of the grinding wheel do you recommend. And of course I'd like to be able to replace the grinding wheel with a buffing wheel. I would like the grinding wheelto be about 40 mm wide as well.

Any suggestions?

This is what I have in mind, sort of:

Attachment 201938

Or this, brand is called Huvema. Unfortuntely the stone is only 20mm wide. I would prefer a 40 mm stone.

I don't think a stone grinder is of any use for razors. The belt and flat wheel type are what most people use. Even those that make blades from scratch still use a belt for grinding.

If you are looking at a grinder for restores, what you are wanting to do is a full regrind, and it is kind of technical. I would not do it without some serious research and maybe some serious consultation with a razor maker. I am not sure either of those machines are really what you are looking for. There was a small grinder build thread not that long ago.

I use a belt sander strictly for making scales, wedges & a few other things but NEVER for re-finishing a blade!

I have buffed & hand sanded vintage blades but no grinding on restores here either

I use several sized pipes as sanding blocks they work well

Attachment 202002

Hello Kees :)

If your going to restore razors are you thinking of removing all pitting? If so then you have 2 options, 1. sandpaper of different grits or 2. greaseless buffing compound using the various grades of grit.
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Sandpaper requires that you use a slow RPM, say 200-600 rpm. To restore a 9/16 blade you will need a wheel of not more than 1.75" diameter to fit in the major hollow of the blade. Sandpaper is the fastest method to remove pitting. You will need various wheel sizes for the different sizes and grinds. Make your own wheels with a hole saw.

I will try to get some pics of my current setup and post them here.
Please note that you will need 2 seperate machines. One for grinding and one for buffing.

The below link shows how I use a modified variable speed wood lathe for sanding razors.
https://flic.kr/p/aS7XRR

Greaseless buffing compound I have not worked with in about 5 years and only on fixed blade hunting knives. Some one else can fill you in on the wheel size and rpm speed.

Great set-up Randy! I was thinking of something more modest. How do you make sure you don't overheat the razor and destroy its temper? Can you use coarse grit buffing compound to remove pitting or would you sand the blade first?

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Originally Posted by Kees

Great set-up Randy! I was thinking of something more modest. How do you make sure you don't overheat the razor and destroy its temper? Can you use coarse grit buffing compound to remove pitting or would you sand the blade first?

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Always keep a container right there with water in it to cool off the blade if it begins to get hot. You will need to experiment with different grit sandpaper or greaseless compound. There is a guy on here who showed how to restore a blade. I think this was it:

Straight Razor Restoration Start to Finish Video Series - Straight Razor Place Library

The main thing is you must have a container with plenty of water to cool the blade if it starts getting hot! You DO NOT want to alter the temper!

He starts restoration with an 80 grit buffing wheel. Is that enough to remove deep pitting?

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Originally Posted by Kees

He starts restoration with an 80 grit buffing wheel. Is that enough to remove deep pitting?

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Kees, if you want good results, I really advise you to restore your first razors by hand, using nothing but sandpaper and something for final buffing. If you are new to restoring razors, a machine like that is only going to enable you to destroy a lot of razors in very little time. Those things are ok for making scales etc, but not for razors at all.

And that stone at that speed: sorry, but not in a million years is that going to be suitable for restoring razors. First off, stone is a bad idea. And as you already indicated, this is not variable speed, so it will destroy temper in less time than you need to blink an eye.

Something like this would be far more useful, especially if you use greaseless compound
Alphametal - COMBIDEAL HBM 100 mm. Profi Polijstmachine + HBM 4 Delig Polijstpastaset

It allows you to control the speed, and the wheels are small enough that you can polish the hollows. Also, if you are going to restore and make scales, a drill press is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Kees

He starts restoration with an 80 grit buffing wheel. Is that enough to remove deep pitting?

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80 grit is very coarse. I don't think I would start any coarser than that! That should be a proper starting point.

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Originally Posted by engine46

80 grit is very coarse. I don't think I would start any coarser than that! That should be a proper starting point.

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I would recommend starting at 600 grit and seeing the results and then dropping down grits if needed. It's amazing how fast 80 grit can chew up a razor.

I don't think that I have ever buffed more coarse than 400. I started with hand sanding and hand buffing. Presently I am still doing the heavy lifting by hand and then the buffer for the end. There is a learning curve on the buffer and the price for the learning is counted in messed up blades. I have chosen to go slow and try for quality of restores and not quantity of restores. There is also some very Zen like time in the hand sanding. It gives me time to think about the blade and work at trying to preserve the subtle lines. Sometimes you can keep a perfectly shaped blade in rough shape perfectly shaped with hand sanding and tape. I do not have the skills yet to do that on a machine, but all in good time. I believe the classic quote is rush a restore and ruin a blade.

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Originally Posted by Kees

He starts restoration with an 80 grit buffing wheel. Is that enough to remove deep pitting?

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The coarsest sandpaper I use is 400 grit at a very low speed. Using 80 grit and your will not have any razor left to shave with! :)

Temperature control is maintained by having your fingers on the blade at all times and a slow speed. At the very first sign that the blade is warming up then dunk it in a pail of water until it is cool again. You will become very good friends with that pail of water. :)

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Originally Posted by RezDog

I don't think that I have ever buffed more coarse than 400. I started with hand sanding and hand buffing. Presently I am still doing the heavy lifting by hand and then the buffer for the end. There is a learning curve on the buffer and the price for the learning is counted in messed up blades. I have chosen to go slow and try for quality of restores and not quantity of restores. There is also some very Zen like time in the hand sanding. It gives me time to think about the blade and work at trying to preserve the subtle lines. Sometimes you can keep a perfectly shaped blade in rough shape perfectly shaped with hand sanding and tape. I do not have the skills yet to do that on a machine, but all in good time. I believe the classic quote is rush a restore and ruin a blade.

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I'm with ya on that Rez. I ruined 2 Wade & Butcher blades on a buffer when he wheel caught them & threw them from my hands. Both times they hit hard objects & broke 'em. It was my fault for doing so. I have saved them just in case I might want to do something with them later.
The large one , "The Celebrated, Extra Hollow Ground Razor" was the first one that I broke. The end can be cut off & made into a shorter straight razor. It also has a slight frown to it but plenty of blade to work with.
The smaller one, "Wade & Butcher Celebrated HOLLOW GROUND Razor", was the second one I broke. This one can have more of a smile added to it & made a nice razor one day!

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Something like this would be far more useful, especially if you use greaseless compound
Alphametal - COMBIDEAL HBM 100 mm. Profi Polijstmachine + HBM 4 Delig Polijstpastaset

It allows you to control the speed, and the wheels are small enough that you can polish the hollows. Also, if you are going to restore and make scales, a drill press is a good idea.

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Thank you for the link. I checked the specifications out. It is a 200 W machine, that converts to 0.26 hp; I read on B&B that Bill Elllis recommends 3/4 hp. This is what he has to say about 1/2 hp buffers: "...but it's also only 1/2 horse. You'd be able to stop that one from spinning with any kind of force against the wheel at all."

Have you tried the HBM polisher?

A lot of great advice here. I can add the warning to not work a full hollow ground blade on power tools. It can thin the blade to uselessness or remove metal off the edge horribly fast. One misstep and in a blink of an eye you're ruined. The tang and spine are safe and any final polishing, but grits that remove metal are dangerous to the thin blade of a full hollow.

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Originally Posted by Hart

A lot of great advice here. I can add the warning to not work a full hollow ground blade on power tools. It can thin the blade to uselessness or remove metal off the edge horribly fast. One misstep and in a blink of an eye you're ruined. The tang and spine are safe and any final polishing, but grits that remove metal are dangerous to the thin blade of a full hollow.

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That's good advice Hart!

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Originally Posted by engine46

I'm with ya on that Rez. I ruined 2 Wade & Butcher blades on a buffer when he wheel caught them & threw them from my hands. Both times they hit hard objects & broke 'em. It was my fault for doing so. I have saved them just in case I might want to do something with them later.
The large one , "The Celebrated, Extra Hollow Ground Razor" was the first one that I broke. The end can be cut off & made into a shorter straight razor. It also has a slight frown to it but plenty of blade to work with.
The smaller one, "Wade & Butcher Celebrated HOLLOW GROUND Razor", was the second one I broke. This one can have more of a smile added to it & made a nice razor one day!

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Well, I've been up late because I fell asleep earlier & took a little nap & woke up about 11:15pm & have been watching tv & doing a few other things. I just got finished grinding the smaller blade with a nicer smile! If you look at a post above, you will see the blade when it was chipped!

I never use power tools when restoring a razor, it is too quick to ruin the blade with my limited experience. Becasue of this limitation, I don't start with blades that have severe pitting or require tremendous amounts of metal removal.
I use wet/dry paper usually starting with 220 grit, and progress up from there.

I am looking at this one: 500 W which converts to 5/8 hp and it has 2 speeds: 1400 and 2800
Beco Technic Poliermotor MAP-2, zwei Stufen, Tischmodell - Beco Technic

The spindles look to be much to short for working on a 3" blade.

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

The spindles look to be much to short for working on a 3" blade.

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Yes, I repurposed a basic grinder for use with 4" wheels and I added extensions to the spindles. There is probably a product designed for that buffer.

I just use a 6" bench grinder with spindles added
I use 4" & 2" wheels only for greaseless & pastes etc
& I have a 6" loose buff I only use clean for finishing

I have an actual buffer from Harbor Freight on a pedestal. I don't mind going there for a buffer. Already has extended shafts!