Restored a Greaves... but have a problem

Hello all!

Well I'm finally on vacation, and the first thing I wanted to do was make a set of scales for an old Greaves that has been laying around. It is one of three razors in a lot of barber's items that I won on ebay. The first set or scales I ever attempted to make were for a Finney that came in the same lot (associated thread not too far below this one). When I bought the horn blanks on Etsy, I got two sets. The black buffalo went on the Finney, and the Honey Ox was for the Greaves.

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I cut the rough shape, then spent 8-10 hours of hand sanding them into what you see, then all of the way up to 4000 grit micro mesh (ow my hands). I then polished them with black emery, green stainless compound, and finally hand polished with Metal Glo. The wedge is a piece of the same honey ox that was sent by the seller from some of his scraps, specifically for wedge making. He did this for me as a favor, since I did not have a wedge to transplant into the new scales (good guy all around):tu.

I then spent some quality time with the blade to bring her back to life. I went through a progression of polishing compounds on felt wheels with my Dremel, finally hand polishing with Metal Glo. The blade still has some remnants of the pitting, but given that it is a full hollow, I didn't want to push it. She still looks good for being 160+ years old. :nj
Most of that time was spent on the blade itself, because I generally like to leave the tang a bit rougher. I like the contrast for some reason.
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All in all, I think it turned out very nicely. My only issue is how off center the blade closes, which can be seen in the two pictures below.

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Before I started all of this, I could see that the blade had extra scratches and pitting on the stamp side near the edge. This indicated to me that it closed off-center and pressed against the horn when closed. I could also tell that it was bent where the tang meets the blade ever so slightly.

Maybe I should have stopped right there and sold the blade for a few bucks. :hmmm:

Instead, I took a gamble that maybe the prior scales were also warped, which may have exacerbated the issue. I thought to myself, "Maybe if I make a nice straight set of scales, with a slightly wider wedge it won't be an issue."

Well, it still closes way off center, and rests against the scale when closed! :banghead:

My big questions are:
1) Is there any way to straighten her back up? (I'm not optimistic)

2) Is it the interaction between the blade and horn that causes pitting, or does moisture have to be involved? I dry my razors thoroughly inside and out after the shave, and let them sit in a stand open overnight before closing and putting them away the next day. Is this blade doomed to develop pitting despite my best efforts?

Thanks for reading. I hope you like how the old bent Greaves cleaned up, and I would love to hear your thoughts regarding the the above questions.

I have posted multiple times that you need to actually take the time to do two things BEFORE you start a restore

#1 Make sure you can get a good clean solid bevel

#2 Test the razor for straightness by placing on a known flat surface and pushing down on the pivot hole with your finger
If you know that the razor is uneven you can adjust the build of the scale to fit the razor..
If you look at the edge at the same time often you can spot upcoming Warp issues also..


Look at the at spine in the side to side to side shot

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At this point in time you can maybe use the steam method to warp the scales around the razor, and get it all "straight" putting a funnel over a boiling pot helps concentrate the steam

Here


Good Luck :)

Thanks for the tips Glen. I knew that it was bent before I began, but I do not know how to build/modify scales to compensate yet. I only know how to build straight scales at this juncture. I just went for it because I was busting with creative energy.:p

The good news is the blade proper is straight as an arrow. It has one of the most even bevels of all of my blades, and honed like a dream. I am certainly shaving with her tonight. I guess if worst come to worst down the road, I can pop the blade out and place the scales on a straighter version. :tu

At this point it looks like too much to be able to correct with pin tension. Building crooked scales is tricky, and so is straightening a bent tang. There is always the possibility of sending to someone to fix.

I had that same problem with a wade that I did recently. I used thrush washers that were tapered, I found which way the blade needed to go and then glued the shims in place, worked like a charm. My horn was black though, you'll have to do something thats clean since your scales are transparent. I believe sharpton (sp?) did a tutorial or atleast a WIP on it.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ng-blades.html. I did something very similar, definitely a lot of trial and error to get it perfect but worth the effort.

Great minds think alike! Nice restore! Your horn scales are accurate and pretty.

Tapered washers huh? I dig it! Thanks for the link. Officially added to my bag of tricks. :beer1:

Hint:

By using a file and Tapering the scale "Under" the Thrust/Bearing washer you accomplish the same adjustment :)

Spazola aka Charlie did a very nice tutorial about it, way better than I could ever explain

There are a couple of way to adjust the way the razor sits you just have to figure out which one will work in each case :)

You could also find a beaker that will take the scales up to the tang when the blade is opened at 90 degrees,
boil water and pour it in the beaker when it has just gone off the boil so the beaker does not crack (or use a laboratory hardened glass tube like I do'
turn the cold water tap on - do the job in the kitchen by the sink,
make a 'spacer' to slide between the scales at the mid point to keep the same width.
place the scales in the very hot water for 2 - 5mins, trying to bend them so you know when they are soft,
take out and close the blade in the scales flexing either end so the the blade sits touching the opposite scale instead,
put the scales under cold water, maintaining the flex until they have thoroughly cooled and hardened,
dry thouroughly, air for a day then oil the scales.

The above has worked for me countless times.

Things that could go wrong:

1. The water is not hot enough and the scales will not bend easily.
2. The water is too hot and you leave the scales too long in it and they become to floppy to work with.
3. You forget to use a spacer (preferably spacers) and the scales get too floppy and the gap between them gets closed up in the middle.
4. After the process the scales have not bent enough - repeat, bu over-compensate by over flexing the scales to allow for any spring-back.

If the spine is nice and straight then it is the tang that is at fault, though it may not even be bent. Sometimes the 'planes' are slightly out and while not catching the scales while the razor is open, they do so when the blade is closed. Plenty of good info above re: what to do if this is the case.

Regards,
Neil

An option is to drill the pivot holes at an angle to make the blade shift center, I use that method exclusively now and it has worked 100% so far. Just re-drill the existing holes.

Here some resources on the topic

A tutorial that I did (if you read the thread, you will see the above suggested method described by a member)

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...cales-fix.html


Blade Centering - Straight Razor Place Library

I did it as I was working with old bone scales. Heating and bending won't work. Pin holes are already drilled.
When a blade is twisted, such as in the OP's 12th pic, lots more to it than closing center. You have to twist the tang position to get the blade reasonably straight as well as get it closing center. Filing on the spacers is reversible as you can pry them off and start over if you go too far!

This is fantastic! I am very happy to see all of the creative ideas to address this issue. Thanks everyone for sharing all of this knowledge and experience! :beer1:

Indeed, there are many ways to accomplish a good fit. Dependent upon what ails it, a cure can usually be found.

Somehow, some way! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

I did it as I was working with old bone scales. Heating and bending won't work. Pin holes are already drilled.
When a blade is twisted, such as in the OP's 12th pic, lots more to it than closing center. You have to twist the tang position to get the blade reasonably straight as well as get it closing center. Filing on the spacers is reversible as you can pry them off and start over if you go too far!

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Exactly! The blade isn't in line with the tang. With the one I dealt with I could get it to close center by tapping the pins. The washers I filed were to line up the center line of the blade with the center line of the scales, looks just like yours. It was easy enough to do just a lot of fitting to make it perfect. In retrospect I would have used double sided tape while fitting the washers and then glued them in when they were right. I first filed them and then glued them in then had to finish the fitting whilst they were glued in. I took way longer than it should have because of how careful I had to be.

Well I finally got around to tackling the centering issue. I decided to start with the wedge shaped washer method first to see where that got me. I super glued a washer to a pencil eraser and ground it into a wedge shape with my dremel, then repeated. I then used a dab of glue to stick it to the scales in the proper orientation. I'm not sure if it was just beginner's luck or I'm that good :p, but it mocked up dead center on the first try!
BEFORE
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AFTER
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It's pretty apparent how much bend is in the tang considering how far off the tail is now that the blade is centered.
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I am very pleased with how it turned out, and am very proud to have her in the collection. To think that I was planning on restoring her and putting her up for sale. :nono: She's not going anywhere.

Thanks everyone for offering all of the potential solutions for this issue. This project has taught me a lot. :beer1: