Need mammoth info!

I just had a section of mammoth cut today...
For the intended use it was a failure. I can still use the pieces for inlays, though even that presents some technical issues and compromises would need to be made. So I'll probably use it as inlays on a very expensive exotic 7 day razor box. (If I get around to it)
Well that said, I'll explain some of what went wrong and perhaps someone else will not have the same loss.
The first and I know now most important factor in working with mammoth tusk is "picking the right piece"! Mammoth tusk unlike elephant ivory varies greatly in age (thousands of years not hundreds) and has weathered elements for much longer. The good thing is that there's MT available that has been frozen for most of that time protecting it from the ages and elements.. so I'll need to study up on what to look for and stay away from.
The section I had cut was beautiful, and array of colors bluish greys black tan.. and cracks. Had hoped the cracks didn't go all the way through, they did. After the waterjet didn't work (the pieces were breaking bad) I took it to a buddy with very expensive bandsaw and experience, same result.
Turns out that my MT is much older and or was not protected from the elements and is mineralized through and through. Hard and brittle.
Any of you guys worked with working with or plan on working with mammoth?
Any tips on how to pick the right pieces, or work with it?
I've got some ideas and understanding but need more. And maybe there are others out there with similar questions.
Thanks in advance for the input.. :)

Pixelfixed is the go-to guy for ivory

Have worked with it many times,I said a few weeks ago it is a PITA to work with.
You have to actually see and hand pick the material for the project in mind.
Or if you cannot do that, buy 4 times what you may need:)

You want to see Mammoth, go to the Tuscon AZ gem show,The russians control 90% of the market so bring lost of cash.
Blue green Mammoth today is selling.
at $300/Lb,some still comes out of Alaska where it is found during mining operations or on the banks of rivers.
But it has to be handled properly.

It needs to be metal banded and cured somtimes for yrs.or it will turn to dust,be carefull buying Mammoth,you can really get burned.

Mark Knapp and Charles Turnage are very good sources for mammoth. If you want interior stuff, Mark will occasionally have blocks of of it and they are very solid. Charles told me that he trades his interior stuff for a LOT of bark ivory because bark is what his knife maker customers want and the guys who want interior stuff for carving, etc are willing to give away the farm to get it .

Okay thanks, I'll be planning a trip to the AZ gem show. Always wanted to go.
Yep definitely got screwed, but I should have known better what to look for, if I had I would have kept looking.
I'm saving money to get elephant ivory before its banned, maybe even most of a tusk to last me forever..
Mammoth will be available for a long time to come, of course the price will go up but at least will be available.

Maybe we could put a group together to pool money for a large section of tusk and get more for our money...? Either way when I get a big chunk I'll try to make it available as its getting hard to find. Though I don't have the right equipment to cut it down yet so that would be more expense.. Ugh!

Mike your between a Rock and a Hard place,Nobody can ship Ivory to Calif anymore:(

Well I'll be traveling back and forth so I think I'll be able to do it.. it's just banned to ship it right?

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Originally Posted by MikeT

Well I'll be traveling back and forth so I think I'll be able to do it.. it's just banned to ship it right?

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To a point,make sure you have a paper trail on the age and origins.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

To a point,make sure you have a paper trail on the age and origins.

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Thanks I'll definitely do that. Good protocol for the authoritarian society that seems to be growing up around us.. rules rules and more rules.. :) oh joy!

Mike, if you are able to get legal pre-ban elephant ivory shipped to you, Joe at Cue Components here in Florida is Da Man!! He has been collecting the stuff for like 35 years and has enough that he can cut it to any size you want. He said that he has sold a fair amount precut slabs to guys who make or rehandle razors. It is very spendy, but it is top quality stuff. I have a thin slab that i got from him long time ago that I eventually plan to use for inlay or spacer material and just haven't got around to it yet..

A luthier that I met stopped using pre ban ivory after wondering why it seemed to be inexhaustible.

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

A guitar maker that I met stopped using pre ban ivory after wondering why it seemed to be inexhaustible.

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are tons of legal preban Ivory in the U.S,just go here and buy a small 70 lb tusk, will last you for many lifetimes.
Boone Trading Company - Ivory and Scrimshaw
Or go here if you want some of the best fossil Ivory available.
http://www.osofamoso.com/

Yea I heard it all before, the misrepresentations of the "elephant issue" and yada yada yada and the inexhaustible supply of old Ivory. I'll bet every other family has some uncle who went on a safari 50 years ago and brought back Ivory and has a tusk or two just sitting in the basement. Also of course there is a paper trail. If you believe all that then you would believe El Chapo could be held long in any Mexican prison.

This was my business and I dealt with it and the crates come into the U.S every day full of poached illegal ivory and only a fraction is caught. That is where the supply comes from.

The ban is the only way to stop it.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Yea I heard it all before, the misrepresentations of the "elephant issue" and yada yada yada and the inexhaustible supply of old Ivory. I'll bet every other family has some uncle who went on a safari 50 years ago and brought back Ivory and has a tusk or two just sitting in the basement. Also of course there is a paper trail. If you believe all that then you would believe El Chapo could be held long in any Mexican prison.

This was my business and I dealt with it and the crates come into the U.S every day full of poached illegal ivory and only a fraction is caught. That is where the supply comes from.

The ban is the only way to stop it.

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Sorry Big, your living in the past,are you aware of the changes in the past 3 mos.?

Don't mean to be an asshole here but isn't cocaine and opium banned also ,, it hasn't stopped or illegal immigration ,, so I'm pretty sure the ban won't stop it unless we're more concerned about Ivory than drugs. Just my take on it. Tc

You need to understand how the ban works,are hundreds of 100 yr old steinway pianos held by customs in new york,they cannot be shipped anywhere,will this save the elephants? are tons of 100 % 90 yr old Ivory that was imported (leagaly) some well over 100 yrs old.
Will this save the elephants? Look to China and japan,both can buy Poached Ivory by legal international law,banning them will save the elephants.
Great Britan has huge stocks if Ivory,They sell to the above countrys all the time.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Yea I heard it all before, the
This was my business and I dealt with it and the crates come into the U.S every day full of poached illegal ivory and only a fraction is caught. That is where the supply comes from.

The ban is the only way to stop it.

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I was unaware of this. Of course I don't have direct information, its hard to believe much of anything that i don't see for myself. And so we are left with taking and believing information from sources we decide to trust or not. People with financial interests in a subject could be considered dubious sources for information, also those inclined to believe one way or another (everybody?) Hehe :/ ugh.
Well it does seem to me that there is truth in what you say. Don't know what your job was but what you wrote makes sense.
If I can find a piece that I can honestly confirm was taken years and years ago then I'll get it and finish purchasing ivory. After that its mammoth.

The reference to the war on drugs is a valid point and presents serious issues that should be considered. Haven't thought about the connection much yet, but the war on drugs made a persistent element a chronic disease. It made drugs way more profitable. Something our people should have learned from alcohol prohibition and the mob... But then again mob mentality was most likely utilized by those who would benefit from it all (the ones who probably DID learn from prohibition of the early 20th century) and the voter is an emotional creature.
Anyway, the solution? I don't know except that it's different than what's been done. Stop supply? Perhaps a good start. Stop demand? Is it possible... ? Maybe that's only something only the individual can answer, because this problem goes way beyond elephants, it goes straight to the core of our problem as a species and how long we get to enjoy the resources that are turning out to be exhaustible.
Sorry for the philosophy, this is a loaded subject.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Sorry Big, your living in the past,are you aware of the changes in the past 3 mos.?

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Changes are that more and more elephants fall victim to poachers due to increased demand by a wealthier than ever middleclass in South East Asia, some of it is smuggled to the West. Not all ivory labelled as pre-ban is really pre-ban. In many countries certificates labelling ivory pre-ban are for sale.

If you take the attitude anything we do will make no difference then just carry that over to every other situation and then why have any enforcement for anything. Want to own a nuclear weapon well why not N Korea has plenty of them, Iran will have them soon too so get one for yer basement.

Plenty of species have been hunted to extinction and made extinct by people who couldn't care less. Tough luck for the critters eh?

Mike, cal the Calif DFG,you will get all the info you need.

The trade in illegal animal parts is massive. There are people doing very bad things all over the world. Decimating animal populations and taking only a small part of the animal. Here in Canada there is a big issue with bear parts. Bears left rotting in the bush with only their gallbladders and paws taken, or in other cases just the head. It is unfortunate but I do not see any easy solutions anywhere near by for any of these animals. I hope that the laws and the enforcement people will be able to move faster in the near future and save at least a few of the at risk species. The Australian Government fairly recently got a major workld court victory over the illegal Japanese whale harvest. Lets hope this continues and we see populations of all the at risk spices start to recover.

Is not just animals,a few yrs ago the 150 yr old martin Guitar company was told.you curtail the use of exotic woods in the U.S.
Or move your company offshore.part of it went to china.
And when the Halibit and Salmon start to disapear off the west coast (like the cod back east)
will be more restrictions.