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I am about to pin my first razor.
I have small brass rods and washers (thanks Joe Chandler) and I was wondering what the best way is to do this.
I did a forum search, but unfortunately search strings like 'how to pin a razor' or something similar either return nothing, or too much.
Thanks.
When useing another softer type of rivit (what they are called) riviting is very difficult. However, with the stuff that you have all you have to do is cut the pin off slightly above the washer, put the other side against somthing hard, and wack it a few times till the end curls over and holds that tiny washer against the scale or perhaps bites into the scale a little bit.
I'm assuming you have the set from classic shaving. The bigger washers go between the blade and the scales, but the tiny little washer goes on the outside of the scales--the side that doesn't have a head already.
I spent a couple hours practising on brass wire (which is a real challenge to get to curl without bending) and then when I got to the real one it took 2 seconds and no trouple at all. I'm going to be buying those from now on.
any othre questions?
I just started pinning myself and although I can't give good advice on the razor itself I might be helpful with making the pins from rod.
In order to get one side pinned first I drilled a hole the exact diameter of the wire in my anvil about 1/2 inch deep.
My first pin got stuck because I hadn't figured a way to pull it out of the hole.
I took a bit of flat stock(knife blank really) and drilled the same diameter hole in it.
I poked the rod thought the knife blank and then into the hoe in the anvil.
Cutting the rod off just above flush I was then able to peen the top end and just pull on the blank to extract it and tap it out of the blank.
It's all down hill from there.
Hope this is helpful. I suppose I could have bought the CD but I find I get more satisfaction by working a problem out for myself instead of buying the answer.
As far as unpinning razors I took another piece of flat bar stock about 2 cm thick and drilled 6 or so holes of sizes very close to the sizes of the pin heads.
This metal now forms a collar or guide for the drill bit and keeps it from walking off of the head and hosing up the scales.
Hope this helps !!:tu
Thanks :tu
God that's a great :tu ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr
Well thanks but for all I know this is how everyone does it.
I'm not really sure since I just sat there and stared at the razor till I had an idea :confused:...................:hmmm:............... :thinking:....................:(.............:D got one !
Then I posted it here !!!
Maybe someone has a better method??:confused:
For making the peened end, I clip off a section of brass rod (I've always wondered if wire-hangers would work or would be too soft a metal), and clamp it into the mandril (sp?) end of my dremel. Then with one hand I slowly turn the rod while with the other I tap the head rounded....
That hole in the barstock idea (for removing the pin by drilling) is a purdy good one!
:tu
C utz
Bill's CD shows how to make a little peening clamp out of a pair of pliers. These are also pretty cool ideas, and probably simpler if you don't have the tools to grind a pair of pliers smooth...
Josh
I watched Bill's CD, too. In his section on pinning, I was interested in the instrument he used while flattening the brass rod. In the CD he had forgotten the name of it. I emailed him with the question; here was his response:Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshEarl
"You can use a 3/32 woodworking "nail set". I think that's what you may be talking about. The other thing is to dish out a spot on the top of a hobby anvil about 3/32 in diameter and a 1/16th deep. Put the indentation about a quarter inch from the edge of the anvil. Use the round head of a small ball peen hammer to mushroom the pin. Make sure the hammer head is polished and also make sure you only tap the pin, not hit it. It make take 100 hits to spread the pin. After pinning a few razors you will get the hang of it."
I like the idea of putting an indentation in the anvil. Notice he says to TAP THE PIN, not whack it. :w
* The last comment was for BPatton, not you Earl
Turns out there is a thing called a riviting anvil. They sell them at crafts stores, and are exactly what has been described above...:rolleyes: ... Except they have holes for a bunch of diffrent gage wires, and only cost 10-15 bucks. Turns out it pays to have a mom that does crafts :shrug: .
and here i am using the dremel to sheer off one end on the pin and pound it out the other side...
I haven't seen he CD and have never made a pin so excuse my simple questions. In the above description, is the indentation being used to hold the pin while you form the mushroom the other end or is the indentation being used to produce the shape of the mushroom end (kinda like a cake mold)? if it's the second option what is being being used to hold the pin? if you held the pin with your fingers, surely both ends on the pin would mushroom? and is there any importance in using the round end of a ball peen hammer? couldn't you use a small hammer or a spoon or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by zepplin
I have, yet, to do a pinning job, but I believe the indentation in the anvil helps to secure the bottom side, keeping it vertical as possible, while he is flattening the top side. The brass is cut to extend 1/16" on either side, thus, the reason for the indentation to be 1/16" deep. - also, helping to round the bottom side as he flattens the top. Bill holds the punch, (3/32" nail set), which has a dimple on the end, and the scales with his left hand as he taps with the ball peen hammer. He then reverses and does the other side. The dimpled nail set just helps to round the finished product. Why the ball peen hammer, instead of a flat? - I am guessing for better control of his tapping motion? Maybe some of our machinests can answer that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by edk442
I'm not a machinest or claim to understand tools, however (my understanding and experience with making/repinning scales), with the ballpeen hammer, as you tap around the end of the pin, you have more of a grazing hit. Which, as you hit around the edge of the pin, causes a spreading of the brass/nickel to mushroom out.Quote:
Originally Posted by zepplin
You could get away with using the flat side of the hammer (albeit more tricky) if you were to do the same grazing-light tap. However, you run the chance of hitting the pin straight on and causing the force to bend the pin.
So, you do not tap the pin straight on, but around the edges... the rounded (peened side) of the hammer helps with the 'grazed hit'.. And yes, the rounded end of a spoon could be used as well, with the same tapping method as used for the ballpeen hammer. While this does take longer, it is also a little 'safer' since you do not have the weight of the hammer, which would could bend the pin if hit too hard or straight on...
(I'll sit down now)
C utz
I agree with everything that you have stated above and I would add that this was most likely the original method used back in the day. You might be able to do it other ways but doing a restoration using a ballpeen would also keep with the original look of pinning of the razor.Quote:
Originally Posted by C utz
I've just pinned my second razor using only a jewellers anvil and a very small ball pien hammer, a length of 1/16th brass rod and #0 brass washers. The first was done using a straight hammer and I have to say that the ballpein is well worth the money - no matter how much you pay.
It is a challenging motor skill, but I think most people who have wielded a hammer for more then putting pictures up in the wall can do it. The trick is that it really is tap tap tap. If you imagine that you are going to hit your nail every time you strike, then let up a bit from there, you are in the right area.
A lesson learnt is that the brass rod has to have flat ends to start with. You cant snip the rod using wire cutters unless they have a flat cutting action, otherwise you end up with an oval pein.
I ended up using my dremel with a cutter attachment to get flat ends. The photos of my first pins are in the resto forum here, the second set are on the razor now, just waiting to test shave with it before posting it.
I am not sure that holding the pin exactly vertical is so important, I found that moving the angle of the hit slightly as I was working to be the idea - imagine the hammer was coming down the same place every time, but I was moving the pin around underneath the hammer to get the strike in the right place to blossom the end smoothly.
Also remember that every strike you do on the side you are hitting will also be to a certain extent reflected on the other side - although the metal absorbs much of the energy, some residual energy does get through to the other end of the pin. Hence try to be conistent.
Do bear in mind that was only my second pinning job. I probably did about 20 peins (10 pins) in total throughout the process, as I discarded ones I was not happy with. There are people here who have done thousands of them and know far more then I ever will.
Si
Good points Si!
I was just thinking when I saw the title of this tread again, that making the end flat before peening should me mentioned.
I use a set of 'nippers' to clip the brass rod to size, but this leaves a pointed-clipped end. I then use a small metal file to flatten the end of the rod before I peen the end.
I've used different methods to hold the rod while peening, from using pliers, to clamping the rod in a vise, clamping it into the mendral end of the Dremel, to just holding the pin between my fingers (on a hard surface of a small anvil) and peening. HOWEVER, the more I think of the riveting anvil, or the anvil with a small (~1/2" deep) hole to hold the pin, the better it sounds! This drilled space will hold the pin snug, almost like a collar the length of the pin, and prevent bending when tapping the peened end. Normally, a bend has not been a problem for me, however, you never know when you will be distracted, or make one bad tap too hard and bend the pin (not that you should be tapping that hard, but with the repetative tapping, you tend to forget sometimes and give one or two considerable hits )....this sort of preventive setup would be great!
ALSO, something that I have brushed off and not paid much attention to (till lately) is that I have noticed a number of times people have mentioned to make sure that the ballpeen end of the hammer is polished.... I had thought, "What ever, it's rounded, and good enough to mushroom the end of the pin". And what I use has been 'good enough'. I use an OLD Craftsman tack hammer that has a small ballpeen on one side. My parents have had it forever, and I believe it came from my grandfathers basement.... A few years back I was in a Sears hardware store and low-and-behold they still sell the same hammer today! (Small tack hammer with a dark brown wooden handle by craftsman). Anyway, my point is, This past weekend I thought I'd give that ol' polish-the peen thing a try... I took some 800 grit sand paper in the palm of one hand, and polished/sanded that old hammers ball peen, all the way up to 2K grit. It looks sort of odd, this old tack hammer having a mirror polished silver ballpeen end (the rest of the hammer head has your traditional dark grey hammer look to it).....
SO, I gave it a whirl, and I have to admit, it works better! The grazing blow has more of a glancing hit than before (less risk of the straight on-bending hit) and the mushroom head that forms is not only more rounded, but looks polished too! Now I understand why the other guys have mentioned to keep the peen polished...
Anyway, my long-winded post is done....
C utz
Could someone please post a picture of such a riveting anvil?
stupid question alert!
do you use two outer washers when pinning a razor (one on each side)
up until the other day i had always thought that you peened one side, put the pin through the holes, slipped a washer on the unfinished side and peened the pin over top the washer. but then i had this flash thought of "Why didn't you need a pin on the other side then?"
what do the washers do anyway? just provide a bigger lip to catch on the scales?
has anyone ever tried making flush-mounted pins? i saw them on a Master USA razor and found myself wondering "How the heck did they do that?!"
Yeah me too - I have a Pigall razor that has the same flush mounted pins. I think you would need something harder then wood or plastic/celluloid to peen against, so here is how I THINK they do it.
I reckon they drill a little recess into the pin hole where a washer sits, then peen into this recess. Once the peen fills the hole, they then grind off the top to make a flush seat.
I am going to try and take it apart this weekend to find out, as it is my next resto, and if it is like this I will let you know. Also I will let you know if I manage to successfully replicate it.
Si