Does anyone know the original process used by vintage makers to etch razors. In general step by step.
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Does anyone know the original process used by vintage makers to etch razors. In general step by step.
Depends on how "vintage" you want to go. :)
There are basically 5 different ways to etch.
1. Stamp. Use a die with the imprint you want to put on the blade. Put the die on the blade. Be the crap out of the die until the blade is deformed.
2. Manually engrave. Use hand gravers (little chisels) to shave away the metal. It's faster to do than you might think.
3. Chemical etch with ferric chloride (or nitric acid) by painting the blade with shellac except for the area to be etched.
4. Electrochemical using electricity and salt water with a disposable die.
5. Laser guided by computer (not exactly vintage).
I'm curious about all of them but which one do u think was used for blade etchings such as those on wade and butchers
i have had some success wiith both the ferric chloride, and electrochemical. done a few little test with both to see what would happen, for a few no name razors.
i found both hard to get clean edges, but the electrochemical is quicker.
I'm hoping to re etch an original etching soon, do you have any recommendations on which method would work best
Most of the W&B I've seen had hand engraved work on the blade and stamped work on the tang.
So it depends on which part you are remarking.
Hand graving will give you the best results, but it requires a lot of practice before doing steel and some specialty tools to accomplish.
For a deep etch you need nitric acid followed by a cleanup etch with muriatic acid. That will give you good clean edges, but you've got to deal with the chemicals and the fumes. Safety becomes an issue when doing it this way.
Ferric Chloride or Copper Sulphate or Muriatic acid are commonly used in hobby etching since they are easy to access and not as dangerous as using the nitric acid. They work slower, taking 30 minutes to an hour to do the etch.
Electrochemical with a 9 volt battery, salt water, and a q tip is probably the safest way. It is slow and the edges are a bit rough, but you can clean them up with a deburr tool. Or you can up the voltage to get a cleaner edge. I often use a stick welder with the ground clipped to a sponge type paint brush. There is a bit of chlorine gas and some hydrogen given off, so do it outside and don't breathe the fumes.
Good, cheap, or fast - pick any 2!
You, sir, sound as if you have a reasonable amount of experience with various methods of etching. Which brings up some questions I have, due to an etch I have that is endangered because of corrosion.
Ferric acid is not available locally. So after a bit of web-fu, I came across the method of using muriatic acid & hydrogen peroxide as a substitute. Info sourced from the following link...
Stop using Ferric Chloride etchant! (A better etching solution.) - All
For a muse, I have the thread started by fellow member Lewy...
http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...cations-3.html
My biggest concern is the difference in materials between the author and myself. He seems to make a thorough point of having copper in his etch solution. Since I would be etching carbon steel instead of copper PCB, would I need to add bits of scrap copper to make the solution properly? Steel, instead? I am even less of a chemist than the author of that article, so your help would be very much appreciated!
I've never used other chemical material than ferric chloride. This solution is really ok for eching the steel.
I still have got a first s.razor reeched this metod and no any additional corrosion in place of eching.
Muriatic acid (available at swimming pool supply stores) will etch carbon steel. Adding hydrogen peroxide (available at a pharmacy or beauty supply store) will make it etch quicker and allow it to etch into stainless steel. No copper is needed for etching steel.
With muriactic acid and hydrogen peroxide mixed correctly and agitated with an aquarium bubbler, the etch rate is about 0.001 inches per hour for carbon steel and about 0.0005 inches per hour for stainless steel.
With stainless steel there is always a chance of the reaction creating hexavalent chromium (nasty stuff) so disposal of the acid solution becomes a problem. I usually pour off the waste acid into disposable plastic containers and the put in a few handfuls of cement mix. The acid reacts with the lime to neutralize it. Then add a bit of water and stir the mix up. Let it dry and you have a concrete brick with all the nasty waste stuff bound up in it.
Ferric chloride is available online. When mixed with water it becomes a weaker hydrochloric acid than muriatic. Lots of artists use it for aging metal surfaces and lots of electronic hobbiest use it for etching circuit boards. It's slower than muriatic acid, but it is also not as likely to chemical burn you.
Ferric chloride is fast enough for me. About 20 minutes for carbon steel. Not so long.
If want made only dark etch without deep engraving effect, enough less than ninute.
My biggest problem is going to be cutting out written do to it's fancy faunt. I figured that before I try to use nail polish and acid I'd find out how they put it on there in the first place.
Nothing wrong with trying to stay true to form, and do it the way the original craftsmen did.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron1234
The way that I prefer to do it is to create the pattern in Adobe Illustrator, paint the blade all over with spray paint, then use a laser cutter to remove the paint and expose the metal. Then I can do acid etching, electrochemical etching, or hand graving.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron1234
Before the laser cutter I would create the pattern in Illustrator, flip it on the horizontal, and then inverse it so that the pattern was in white surrounded by a black box. I would then laser print the inverse pattern onto photo gloss paper. Cut the pattern out, lightly tape or glue it to the blade with the black ink against the blade. Then take a cloths iron on high with steam and run it over the back (non printed) side of the cut out pattern for about 5 minutes. This will transfer the toner onto the blade. Let it cool down and then soak the blade with the pattern stuck to it in water for about 15 minutes. The paper will break down (you may have to rub it a little) leaving you with the pattern on the blade. If there are any bare metal spots left (besides your pattern) cover them up with paint and you are ready to etch.
The following is an example of an inverse pattern print for a group of chisels I did a few years ago. And the guy's last name was Horney.
Attachment 223287
So that is the type of pattern you want to make.
There are several free graphic editors like Gimp that will do the job if you don't have Illustrator.
I would love to be able to do that but at the moment I don't have access to those tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by criswilson10
The tools for that are relatively simple. A computer with a graphics program, a laser printer or ink printer and photocopier, an iron, and acid.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron1234
If you don't have a laser printer then print it the design on an inkjet printer and take it somewhere and photocopy it. I haven't tried it yet, but
you could just save the image to a thumb drive and take it to a photo place that does prints from digital cameras and have them print it out on
photo paper.
How do you transfer the graphic? Flat plate of iron don't fit to grinded profil of straight razor.
I believe the important part here is the heat + moisture. Which an iron set to high, with steam, will do because the steam is the primary workhorse of energy conveyance. Nuclear power plants don't actually produce electricity with the nuclear reaction itself; rather, that reaction produces lots of heat which they use to heat water into steam, which turns turbines (converting mechanical/kinetic energy into DC electrical energy).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewy
I think as long as the print out of the inverse & flipped patern is held against the work surface, and the iron is close enough when you are steaming it, the iron doesn't have to make full & flush contact with the work piece.
What do you think, Cris? Would a natural sponge do the trick of holding the pattern down while allowing the iron to do its thing? (I assume it would be a roll of the dice on whether non-natural sponges would melt...)
The iron doesn't have to be flat against a blade. All you are trying to do is heat the paper or the metal up enough to melt the toner. Ideally you want to heat things up to 230 F (110 C), maximum is 266 F (130 C). You can run the edge of the iron to get into the curves. The isn't really necessary, but I have found that it helps separate the gloss coating from paper.
You could also generate the heat with a heat gun, toaster oven, stove, soldering iron, torch, etc. An iron is just something that most people have and isn't as likely to blow the blade temper or cause a fire.
If you are having something that is really hollowed or curvy, you can heat up a steel rod in an oven or with a torch to about 300 F and then roll it over the hollow like a rolling pin - wet leather gloves or oven mitts are a necessity unless you want to visit the burn unit.
What type of laser cutter do you use?Quote:
Originally Posted by criswilson10
I have a Universal Laser V660 - 60 watt laser with an 18" x 32" x 6" bed. There are plenty of laser cutters out there if you have a few thousand dollars. Some of the newer ones can directly darken metal to create the appearance of an etch.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron1234
I probably need to find somet hing a little on the cheep side. I only need to do 2 razors at this point. I like the sound of the precision.
A lot of universities have them, so if there is one near you then you could see if a student would do it for a six pack of beer.
If you want to buy your own you can usually pick a used one up on ebay for under $1,000 (USD), but you will also need a scrubbing exhaust system ($5,000 + USD) to handle some of the nasties that burn off from organics like dioxin, chlorine, carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide. Or wait a few years and there will be a table top version that costs less than $1,000 new.
Another cheap option is take your pattern to a screen printer (T-shirt maker) and let them screen your patterns on. I often do this circuit boards that I make so they will be neatly labeled.
