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Ok. I have a razor from around 1790 and the scales are probably mid 1800.
I am trying to see if there is anyone or place that sells scales from then that they have collected from old broken razors. Either that or reproductions of that style. I maybe willing to send it to someone to do it.
Voidmonster, Science Guy, Sharptonn, Tarkus are all guys that are into the old stuff like that. Maybe one of them could help out.
Pics of the razor could be helpful.
Any good restore guy can make new scales out of the material you think is best for your blade or should I say period correct. Shape is no problem. Pics will be necessary and/or a sketch would help. The blade will have to go to the restore guy for fitting to the blade. I wouldn't trust going by your measurements if you sent it to me. Just saying, not looking for work. In fact now that I have said that I would refuse to do it. But the wedge ( if a new 1 is necessary ) will have to be made to fit the blade width so that it sits right in the scales. As far as prying an old pair out of a guys collection....good luck on that and I mean finding a pair that fit right.
Attachment 227373Attachment 227374
so how hard is it to make horn scales? What would be needed? I have ideas, but may be more trouble than I think.
I just restored a razor with the exact same scales as yours which are about 100 years to late for your razor, I took a good look through many photo's of stub tail razors from your period then I made a set using some Horn blanks and domed washers.
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...y.jpg~original
http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/w...v.jpg~original
Here is a stub with original scales ( I believe ) As I recall the older they are the straighter and more simple the scale design. My buddy Zak would be the vat of knowledge I turned to for info. Not to take anything away from the others mentioned at all.
Attachment 227421
Attachment 227463
Probably close to these.
Your razor was made between 1790 or so and maybe 1810. By 1814, that style blade was most of the way out.
The original scales could have been born, bone, ivory, or tortoise shell (which wasn't made from tortoises -- instead it came from hawksbill sea turtles which are surprisingly different from tortoises).
Horn, obviously, is your best bet. It's a pretty easy material to work with, but make sure you've got good ventilation. It smells exactly like burning hair because it's the same stuff.
I'm out at dinner right now, but I can get some pictures of the details of how the edges were done when I get home.
In the interim, ScienceGuy has a super handy batch of scale tracings which are organized by era and razor type. I believe you can print these pictures on a sheet of 8.5x11 paper and they are 1:1 size.
http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...ef459c9482.jpg
Here's 7 different styles of scales + ornaments from around the right time period.
http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...a97cc9adbd.jpg
You've got a lot of leeway! Obviously some of them are more difficult to do than others. Probably the most straight forward would be the flat slab with rounded edges. I've had good luck making those sort of edges with a router bit with my Dremel held in a vise and just gently work the edge until it looks right.
It's about 50/50 whether or not razors from this time period had pewter wedges or not. If they didn't, the wedge was cut into the scales. I wouldn't recommend trying that unless you've got experience with it.
I know folks regularly talk about the lead wedges in old razors but most -- if not all -- were made from pewter. There's a lot of folks selling reasonably priced pewter ingots on eBay.
What I've done to make wedges is use an old teflon-coated baking pan with squared edges. I tilt it at a slight angle, hold the metal with some pliers and then just melt it with a blowtorch into the pan. From there it's easy to cut it down and shape it with a belt sander.
Strangely, many of the razors from that period have wedges with a characteristic pattern of holes. There's the central hole which the pin goes through but it's surrounded by three others in a pattern like the Clubs mark. It's only really noticeable if you use translucent horn.
William Evatt cast steel 1791-1805? I think you may have supplied this info for another with the same maker.
Yeah, that sounds familiar! I knew I'd looked up the name before, but couldn't remember the information off the top of my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideon66
The early scales resembling ironing boards shouldn't pose a problem for most restorers here. This is a set of horn I carved to duplicate the cracked ones that were originally on this Greaves stub tail. This thing shaves great!
I usually find old razors with horn scales in tack. I do a few days soak in neats foot oil clean off rust and gunk. Tighten up the pins and hone for a few hours. I have only replaced one set of sclaes and I have bought another set for that razor because I don't like the wood. Maybe I should do that one first before I try and make a set of scales.
I do like the old squared style almost coffin look style scales tapering top to bottom. Only thing is most I have seen are tortoiseshell.
Ok So I was thinking sort of this style scale, but can't find the material to make them anywhere. What would be a good place to look for either horn or something similar to a faux tortoiseshell? If I can't find something like that I may just look for a black horn with white streaks.
Attachment 231685
There is a product called Kirinite: Be sure to remember you need a 6" length for most scales.
Kirinite Tortoise Shell 1/4" (Sheet) Piece
Is one size available.
And other sources carry it also~
~Richard
So I would want a 1/4" thickness? Can't seem to open the link. I did a search for the product, but most are out of stock for the size I would need except the Kirinite site. Only they seem expensive. The smallest they sell that would be big enough for scales would be a 6" x 12" X 1/4" for 62.95.
Decorative Polyesters
1/8 inch is what you want
here are two different styles you need the 4x10 size for scales
Ok found a site with a sheet of Kirinite tortoise that is 13" x 1" x 1/8" for $17.95. Would this size work?
From looking at the pic of what I want to try and do. Those scales look like they may be thicker than a 1/8".
Yes that size would make one set
6.5 x 1 x 1/8
Most Vintage scales are actually less then 1/8 thick, closer to 1/10 per side...
I would go for a very slightly curved scale. The straight scales were on certain razors from that period, but I think the slight curvature in the scales suits the aesthetic of the blades with extremely curved spine (see first and third from the bottom on VoidMonster's last photo). Horn is advisable, if you can find a blond horn (any restorer can too). VoidMonster can also give some advice (he has tried many experiments) on using dyes to turn blonde horn into faux tortoise, like they did back then.
Yeah I am having a issue deciding that. First most blades I see from that time have straight scale, but the spine is more straight too. Second I have never made scales before and straight would be easier, plus I like the beveled edges and don't know how I would do that with a curve.
What is your thinking on horn? I do like the tortoise look, but I like the darker and the horn tortoise I have on my Wolstenholm is much lighter.
The more I look at the faux tortoise the less I like the new materials look compared to the real stuff. I think I may look into black horn with brown streaks. It is a similar look color wise as tortoise only not the same pattern. Still not sure about how to add a slight curvature and get the edge look I want.
This is a little pre-emptive of a project I am working on, but below are some detailed scale outlines for pieces around the period of your razor if you are looking for accurate shapes.
Attachment 232246
Attachment 232247
Attachment 232248
Attachment 232249
I do like those I guess I was still thinking of the flat top beveled sides coffin look. Which would be tough to curve.
You should be able to put a sharp bevel on any of these shapes.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideon66
Ok ordered a horn blank 6" X 2" X 1/8". Cut in half should make two scales. Hope the brown and black looks a lot like the middle ones above listed by scienceguy. I was thinking on going with the 4th one down on the scale tracings from scienceguy from the link on the first page. I do like the style and look of the middle ones above though.
If it does look like the mottled horn, I'd be very interested as I have not been able to find horn blanks with that pattern. Also make sure you align the scales pivot-to-pivot end and wedge-to-wedge end on the horn blank, so if it warps over time, the warping should be the same and it will compensate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideon66
They are black with brown streaks water buffalo from Maggard. Each one looks different so you never know.
If I am understanding you on cutting the blank. I should have the pivot end from both scales come from the same end of the blank and logically this would be the same for the wedge?
Now this will be first time cutting scales. Is it best to trace the outline from the tracings on the link to the blank cut the blank in half and sand it into the shape/form I want? Only power tool I may use is a dremel.
I will probably saw with a hacksaw. Drilling the pin holes could be interesting. If I mess up I am only out 9bucks so this is a good way for me to start.
If this is your first set I would recommend going through the information in the Workshop sub-forum on scale making.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideon66
I looked at a bunch in the SRlibrary, but mostly they use power tools I don't have. I don't even have a shop. I have a shed with no windows or power. I will have to do this outside in in the woods in my yard.
Is there a good place in the workshop sub-form to look?
Ok this is taking me much longer than expected, haven't found much time to work on the scales. Anyhow I took the tracing of the scale twice glued to the horn blank. Then cut with a hacksaw. PITA. Then took Dremel held with claps and ground down to the basic shape. What a mess and oh such a lovely smell. At least it was outdoors. It has rained every time since then that I had time so that is where I am at right now. Also trying to figure out what to use for a wedge. I was thinking of grinding down a nickel or penny unless I can find something else around the house to use. I guess I have to go to a lot of hand sanding now to clean up all the edges and create the bevel sides and get these where I want them. So do I rubber cement them together while I do this and drill the holes?
Oh and the horn will most likely just look brown. It had a nice pattern on the one side, but I think that was also dyed with yellow or something. It was odd and only on the surface and maybe a little deeper. I did that side out so I will see once I get to that point.
Trying to grind /sand coins to shape for a wedge can be done but be prepared for some work.
To keep it traditional looking lead works fine and is easy to work . Old fishing weights /tire weights etc. can easily be hammered then shaped to work.
To hold them ( scales ) together while you work them and drill it's easy when you use a couple of pieces of double sided tape ( carpet tape) to hold them together.
This is just a quick and dirty explaination but there are better "how to'" in the stickies at the top of the forum you might find helpful .
That is a really good idea I had not thought of using fishing weights for the wedge. That will save me a lot of time and angling the wedge will be much easier. If I need to make it thicker of thinner all I need is the hammer. For a clean edge on a lead weight do you cut, sand or grind to fit cleanly in the scales? Never worked with lead before. Figure making it airborne is a bad idea even if it is outside.
The carpet tape I have is really thick do they have thin stuff at the hardware store?
Like most any grinding or sanding a mask is a good idea. Lead can pretty easily be cut by scoring and finishing up with a file or sandpaper. The angle is also easily adjusted by keeping a sheet of sandpaper flat on a table and sliding the wedge back and forth.
You can get the very thin tape at most any hardware shop but I only use the thicker stuff that looks more like fabric.
