Help getting that mirror finish

So I'm struggling a bit on getting my blades to a mirror finish.
It just seems like I can always see a scratch in the metal. I've done hand sanding through 600 (usually trying to start on the lowest grit possible) Then wet micro mesh and I've buffed on a Beal Buff system with Tripoli and white dimond compound. I've then hand polished with MAAS metal polish. These are 3 blades I've been working on (the wedge was in the worst shape) I just cant seem to get ALL the scratches from the hand sanding out. (Or am I just being too picky) I've been thinking about a cheap Harbor freight tumbler- Do you guys find that those make a significant difference? I have no idea why some of these are upside down and not sure how to fix.

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A true mirror finish is nearly unattainable, but you can get very close I think. For a near mirror finish I usually hand sand to 3000 and then polish by hand as well after that. I don't have a buffer or tumbler so I can't give advise on those tools, though many people have good success with them. You are only sanding to 600? Next try 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000, then use some method of polishing. Even if it ends up looking like a mirror, magnification will surely reveal more scratches. Sometimes you just have to know when enough is enough.

Keep going on hand sanding. Over 1000 should get you there

I don't think I have ever mastered the mirror finish. I hand sand with 400 and then buff with 600 and then wet hand sand to 2000 then emery, tripoli, white then red. There is often scratches left behind. It does not matter to me. I understand that to get them out, once they appear, you have to back up one step, maybe two and take another run at it. Part of why I don't care about getting a mirror finish is they are very time comsuming to do and they mark quite easily. I am happy with pretty shiny and clean. I am going to hone them and use them and they will be scratched.

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Originally Posted by xiaotuzi

A true mirror finish is nearly unattainable, but you can get very close I think. For a near mirror finish I usually hand sand to 3000 and then polish by hand as well after that. I don't have a buffer or tumbler so I can't give advise on those tools, though many people have good success with them. You are only sanding to 600? Next try 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000, then use some method of polishing. Even if it ends up looking like a mirror, magnification will surely reveal more scratches. Sometimes you just have to know when enough is enough.

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No sanding to 600 wet sand paper then using Micro Mesh 2x2 Pads through all the grits from 1500 to 12000

I think the advise of sometimes knowing when enough is enough is what I needed to hear. I'm a bit of an obsessive perfectionist when I do things and can be a bit over critical of my own work.

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Originally Posted by ssgmeader

No sanding to 600 wet sand paper then using Micro Mesh 2x2 Pads through all the grits from 1500 to 12000

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The jump from 600 to the Micro Mesh pads is a big one.
3M has finer paper than 600...
I am not sure this link copied well but there are 3M wetordry polishing paper.
Walmart has wetordry Sandpaper - 1000, 1500, 2000, and 2500 and 3M has finer..

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/2...20FINAL_R2.pdf

Each grit like honing needs to remove the scratches from the previous. Too big a jump
and you are never done.

So, how bad was the pitting, do you have photos?

What is the lowest grit you tried.

You must remove all the surrounding metal, to the depth of the lowest pit. Only go as low in grit as needed or you will, spend more time removing the deeper scratches.

Typically, I start at 600, then drop down in grit a little at a time until I am making progress, removing the damage. Sometimes it is easier to use a bit higher grit and spend more time removing the damage than using a lower grit and spend more time removing the scratches you made with lower grit.

The mistake most folks make is not spending enough time on the lowest grit and removing all the pitting.

I see original pitting in your finish. Sand from heel to toe, then from edge to spine, removing each scratch pattern. It will leave a more uniform pattern and remove metal faster, also use a cork backer, wrapped in 6mm craft foam.

Once all the pitting is removed and you have a uniform finish, then move up, if you have a uniform base, the finer grits go quickly.

I go to 2k W&D then buff, you can hand polish after 2k or use micro mesh. Buy good paper, cut into 3 inch squares and change it, when it stops cutting.

Almost always, a defective finish is from not spending enough time at the lowest grit.

Dull your edge, with a diamond file, plate or sand paper, it will make it much safer to sand, you will have to re-hone when done anyway.

I do not like the finish of tumblers, they remove all the sharp lines and detail. Have one never use it for razors.

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Originally Posted by ssgmeader

No sanding to 600 wet sand paper then using Micro Mesh 2x2 Pads through all the grits from 1500 to 12000

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Oh, ok. I haven't used Micro Mesh before so I might not be of much help. Sounds like it should be plenty high enough grit. Are they the cushioned square pads? Maybe they're too squishy for what you are trying to do. What are you using as a "backer"? A cork is pretty common as a backer with sandpaper, I use a piece of dowel for a harder backer. Probably just need more time at each level before moving on. Good luck with it, I hope you have a good outcome.

You might try buffing with Chromium oxide after 2000 grt. W/D paper, followed by Maas or flitz or even 3M metal restorer/ polish.

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Originally Posted by outback

...or even 3M metal restorer/ polish.

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Ahh, the "bling"! :tu

Yep...good ol "blade bling".

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

So, how bad was the pitting, do you have photos?

What is the lowest grit you tried.

You must remove all the surrounding metal, to the depth of the lowest pit. Only go as low in grit as needed or you will, spend more time removing the deeper scratches.

Typically, I start at 600, then drop down in grit a little at a time until I am making progress, removing the damage. Sometimes it is easier to use a bit higher grit and spend more time removing the damage than using a lower grit and spend more time removing the scratches you made with lower grit.

The mistake most folks make is not spending enough time on the lowest grit and removing all the pitting.

I see original pitting in your finish. Sand from heel to toe, then from edge to spine, removing each scratch pattern. It will leave a more uniform pattern and remove metal faster, also use a cork backer, wrapped in 6mm craft foam.

Once all the pitting is removed and you have a uniform finish, then move up, if you have a uniform base, the finer grits go quickly.

I go to 2k W&D then buff, you can hand polish after 2k or use micro mesh. Buy good paper, cut into 3 inch squares and change it, when it stops cutting.

Almost always, a defective finish is from not spending enough time at the lowest grit.

Dull your edge, with a diamond file, plate or sand paper, it will make it much safer to sand, you will have to re-hone when done anyway.

I do not like the finish of tumblers, they remove all the sharp lines and detail. Have one never use it for razors.

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It depended on the blade. The Wedge I went down to 240 because it was the worst. of the 3, The Magnetic I started @ 400 and the one with the scales still on it honestly I just hit it real quick with 600 then buff wheel and MAAS because the blades in real good condition

the Wedge in question is to the right.
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The Magnetic Razor

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I don't have original photo's of the one still in scales.

I was wondering if the jump from 600 to 1500 was too much. I do that on the wood turning I do with out an issue but metal obviously is completely different.

I'm also not opposed to devils spit being left as I've read that it may never come out no matter how much sanding you do.

["I]I was wondering of the jump from 600 to 1500 was too much. I do that one the wood turning I do with out an issue but metal obviously is completely different."
[/I]
It depends on your 600 finish or even the lower grits. If you have an even finish 600 can easily be removed with 1k or 1.5k. What you see is below the finish. You also have to remove the previous grit scratches with each grit jump. Steel eats paper, much faster than wood. Change your paper often, the backer makes a Big difference, and change directions as I mentioned before.

The pitting I see, in the original photos is the same pitting I see in the finished blade. You did not go deep enough or spend enough time to get an even patter in the low grits.

Your issue is not the finish, it is the base.

I would go back to 400 and try to get an even pattern, keeping an eye on the deepest pits.

I would hit the magnetic with 1k and see, if you have to, drop to 600, 600 scratches come out easy with 1k paper. I often sand a razor with 1k then buff, it will remove a lot of surface imperfections and make a blade pop. 1k scratches can be buffed with metal polish by hand, but a bit of 2k makes it easier, and does not take that much time.

Sometimes, a satin finish is the way to go with problem razors, better yet buy better razors…

It is much easier and safer to sand an unpinned razor

As you are sanding it is important to use some kind of lubrication, WD40, water, something to help clear the sand paper and clear the scratches you are making with the sand paper as you go. Nothing worse than loading up a piece of sand paper and putting a big gnarly scratch in your piece. I usually fill a Tupperware container ( if my wife is no watching :D ) or a squirt bottle with water and just a bit of dawn dish soap for my sanding sessions. The dish soap is not a need but I feel it kind of makes things a bit slicker and you also clean as you go :D

Any suggestions to make the heel to spine sanding easier. I was doing it and the short strokes are real difficult.

I was thinking a sanding block and strokes light you would hone it. But I doubt thats works on a hollow ground. Is that where the wine cork makes it easier?

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Originally Posted by ejmolitor37

As you are sanding it is important to use some kind of lubrication, WD40, water, something to help clear the sand paper and clear the scratches you are making with the sand paper as you go. Nothing worse than loading up a piece of sand paper and putting a big gnarly scratch in your piece. I usually fill a Tupperware container ( if my wife is no watching :D ) or a squirt bottle with water and just a bit of dawn dish soap for my sanding sessions. The dish soap is not a need but I feel it kind of makes things a bit slicker and you also clean as you go :D

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Meant to mention I was using WD40 on the first razor I was doing, just wet sanding on the others.

I figured you were but thought just in case id bring it up. I think you are doing fine chasing scratches is never fun, I have done that on paint jobs and that really sucks. Id like to know how the Harbor Freight tumbler goes if you try it.

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Originally Posted by ssgmeader

Any suggestions to make the heel to spine sanding easier. I was doing it and the short strokes are real difficult.

I was thinking a sanding block and strokes light you would hone it. But I doubt thats works on a hollow ground. Is that where the wine cork makes it easier?

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Yes. For working spine to edge, a cork or something similar is best. I've used erasers for some time now, they conform well to the curve of the blade face.
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I sure hope you are talking about a VIBRATING tumbler.

Yup, wine cork, or ½ or ¾ inch PVC pipe coupler. I like synthetic wine corks, the end is flat to get in corners.

Wrap the cork or PVC with a 3x3in piece of craft foam, Wall mart or Craft store or a piece of Yoga mat. Yoga mat makes a great work surface or cushioning for storing stones, and are a buck or two, at thrift stores, cut easily with a razor knife or paper cutter.

Then wrap your 3x3 paper around the cork and foam. You can use the whole piece of paper, by flipping it around, the thickness, is also easier on your hands and can be adjusted for the hollow grind, with the cork and pipe couplings.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yup, wine cork, or ½ or ¾ inch PVC pipe coupler. I like synthetic wine corks, the end is flat to get in corners.

Wrap the cork or PVC with a 3x3in piece of craft foam, Wall mart or Craft store or a piece of Yoga mat. Yoga mat makes a great work surface or cushioning for storing stones, and are a buck or two, at thrift stores, cut easily with a razor knife or paper cutter.

Then wrap your 3x3 paper around the cork and foam. You can use the whole piece of paper, by flipping it around, the thickness, is also easier on your hands and can be adjusted for the hollow grind, with the cork and pipe couplings.

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Rubber tubing works great too. I've got an excellent results and use WD-40 as a lubricant. About 500 or more that shine really starts to come out.

When I hand sanded, I would work dry to 1K and then start with wd-40 and 1,2,3k and it would look pretty dang good. Usually enough to hand polish with paste metal polishes. Buffers can open a whole other ball of worms...including snatching blades from your hands and destroying them. Ask me how I know.

Yea, I sand dry, then use WD40 to finish on 1 and 2K paper.

From there, you can hand polish with 3m or Maas or the green greased stick on the buffer with a sewn cotton wheel.