Soft/Hard Pins

Some years ago i purchased Brass & Nickel Silver pins from a manufacturer in the states .. Running low on nickel silver i thought i would get ahead of the game and buy a batch ,again from the states because i use 1/16ths, i was determined not to touch the new batch until i'd used all of the previous .
The time came , only to realise that they are soft & mushy.
My next attempt was to buy a load from a razor supply company , they arrived today and to my dismay they were soft too..

Now i realise that most ppl pin with soft pins, hence the saying about using a spoon to peen, which sounded stupid to me but now i understand.

After speaking to an expert today i know that whether pins are hard or soft it is just down to luck... (Alloy-360/cZ121)

Apparently my options are:
1. Anneal them . Heat to dull red then into water ,however this could and i think it did make them softer. Heating then a slow cool is my next attempt.
2. Work Hardening.. Just use them and they will harden. i didnt see that happening whilst i was tapping away..
3. Maybe a dummy move but i've stuck some in the fridge overnight..

I wont give up :/

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Originally Posted by JOB15

Now i realise that most ppl pin with soft pins, hence the saying about using a spoon to peen, which sounded stupid to me but now i understand.

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Interesting, the few times I have ordered/bought rod for peening it was just nickel silver rod and I never gave a thought to how hard or soft they were. I always used a very small ball peen hammer to peen with. The only time I use a heavy old soup spoon is to tighten up a loose pivot so I take less of a chance cracking the scales.

Bob

Funny, the first batch of rod I bought was nickel silver and it was so hard I could not get it to peed properly. Then Sharpton had a post about annealing them. The next batch was much easier to work with.

I think stronger pins give you the ability to pin more tightly too, ideal for heavy blades..

There is a happy medium for sure. Raol sent me a roll of nickels silver wire some time ago and it was perfect and lasted me for a very long time.

I have experienced the problem in reverse where the material is often too hard. I too buy in bulk. Annealing is the answer. Sometimes the ends of the rods are harder and softer in the middle.

I think you overheated your rod, try heating to just were it begins to change color then quench in water. Also try cutting your pieces to about ¾ inch then heating the tips and quenching.

Annealing will make it harder or softer, you just need to fiddle with the color and quench depending on the rod. Generally, more heat makes it softer.

I also taper my pin holes for a strong tight fit. I use an inexpensive tapered diamond burr in a pin vise.

I will try some more annealing before I send them back.
My plan is to buy small pieces, to test.
Ideally I like to have a nice dommed pin leaving a perfect lip of the washer showing, aint gonna happen with this lot.

Today I got out some brass pins that just look cheap to me, really shiny and a light yellow colour.. I use them for things other than pinning and I don't know where I got them from.

Started pinning with them and the mushroomed head basically snapped in half.. They have no flex at all..
I cannot let my art suffer this way :o

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Originally Posted by JOB15

Today I got out some brass pins that just look cheap to me, really shiny and a light yellow colour.. I use them for things other than pinning and I don't know where I got them from.

Started pinning with them and the mushroomed head basically snapped in half.. They have no flex at all..
I cannot let my art suffer this way :o

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You having a run of bad luck with pinning materials. Can't say I have had that happen with brass pins either. Hope you can get it sorted.

Bob

Yeah the harder ones are easier to correct using a little heat

I have 25 feet of NiAg rods that are about useless for pinning sitting in the shop because they are too soft

Been the for about 10 years now :( someday I might get around to messing with them but honestly it just isn't worth the time :(

On the plus side , i am now clued up, as they say :)

Had a talk today with a large supplier in Northampton.
He explained that they can get me rod as strong or as soft as i want. Adding more copper to the brass mixture will increase its strength.
This stuff would be made in Germany and then shipped over to the UK. The only problem is that i would have to order 500lbs :/

Really nice guy who told me that i could contact him for any metallurgy questions in the future..
Thanks..

Thats only 10,000 razors or so.

You would be getting pretty good at pinning after using it up!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JOB15

Had a talk today with a large supplier in Northampton.
He explained that they can get me rod as strong or as soft as i want. Adding more copper to the brass mixture will increase its strength.
This stuff would be made in Germany and then shipped over to the UK. The only problem is that i would have to order 500lbs :/

Really nice guy who told me that i could contact him for any metallurgy questions in the future..
Thanks..

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Brings to mind when Neil Miller was searching for a source for Genuine Linen.

If memory serves, the supplier's minimum order would be enough for Neil to make tents for an entire Regiment-------

If i was single i would buy it :)

If I had a nickel for every time that thought popped in my head.

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Originally Posted by JOB15

If i was single i would buy it :)

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Originally Posted by jfk742

If I had a nickel for every time that thought popped in my head.

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For a VERY REASONABLE fee I won't tell your lovely brides about this---:w

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

For a VERY REASONABLE fee I won't tell your lovely brides about this---:w

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Brides? I had no idea.

Back on topic, I have had some overly soft brass pins, and then some NiAg pins that were so hard they were almost unusable until I got a butane torch to anneal them. I have also had some 1/16" pin stock that was over-sized and wouldn't fit my collars.

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Brides? I had no idea.

Back on topic, I have had some overly soft brass pins, and then some NiAg pins that were so hard they were almost unusable until I got a butane torch to anneal them. I have also had some 1/16" pin stock that was over-sized and wouldn't fit my collars.

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A few years ago 1/16" nickle silver rod was a bit hard to find but I'd found a supplier and I ordered a few feet. I let a friend who was searching for that rod as he was out and used a lot of it. So I let him know that that I had a source and he asked if I could send him a sample and I said sure.

I had never thought about brass or nickle silver rod being too hard or soft. :shrug: However my friend found the quality right on and ordered in a bunch of it. Sometimes I get lucky :tu

There are a lot of different alloys of nickle silver rod.
I find 18% nickel to be ideal for razor pins.
The 12% nickel is more common to find because it is used to make screws, and it is hard to peen by hand.
I can't remember what the brass pins I like are, but I think they were higher percent copper than the stuff sold at Hobby Lobby.

I should start making rod. I have probably 500 lbs of yellow brass and at least 20-30 lbs of nickel silver/German silver in scrap...
Alright this is picky and I don't mean to be an ass, especially since I think most everyone knows it but it cracks me up to see people give nickel silver the chemical symbol NiAg. I know, I know, it's just an abbreviated way of saying it but there is no silver in nickel silver

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

....I have also had some 1/16" pin stock that was over-sized and wouldn't fit my collars.

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I thought that was just your head Aaron.:rofl2: