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This came in the mail today. It is supposed to be a Herder blade with bone scales and pins. For $14.39 it should be a fun project.
I am not an expert on scale material so can't say they are bone but they do have a grain pattern so maybe? The wedge is not tapered. I am satisfied that I got my money's worth. I did not include the vendors name is that allowed? Send me a PM and I will send it to you. I forgot to mention it is not shave ready.
Attachment 324461
Attachment 324462
Is that one of those that still needs hardened and honed? I remember someone posted one of these not too long ago. It's a good price. For sure. Should be a fun razor when done.
There were a good deal of those that needed to be hardened and tempered and then ground. There were others that just needed a finish grind and the rest was already done. So the first question is, is it hardened? Do you have a grinder? I have seen quite a few sets of those scales and they are indeed bone.
And all the wedges seem to be more like spacers that need shaved down to wedge shape.
As said, you will need a heat treat oven to harden and a salt bath to temper. Then you have to finish grind the blade.
Not a small order just starting out.
About $5000 should do the trick.
Normally I would suggest you attend the meet in Texas where all the equipment and expertise are located.
Unfortunately, the next meet will be February 2022.
You may find someone close to help you. Vic is in Colorado. You can contact him at bluesman7.
He is an evil, mean and nasty fellow.
Good luck
I have met him on a couple of occasions. Maybe Bluesman will check in.Quote:
Originally Posted by rolodave
I picked up three of them. Fast shipping. It's a shame about the wedge. The wedge end is already pinned, without washers. I will give it a go, and put a proper wedge in there in place of the very thin spacer. Definitely has not had secondary grinding. In fact, I don't think any grinding at all. There is considerable forge scale on the razor, blending right in with the expected patina. Next time I am in the shop I will run a file over it and see if it has been heat treated yet. A file will barely scratch hardened steel and won't really cut a shaving. If it is hardened then it is probably tempered, but a half hour at 340f probably won't hurt it either way. If it needs full HT I will finally break in my fancy thermostatically electronically controlled Paragon. Anybody know about what temp and soak time to use for Solingen steel? I could just use a magnet and go another 50f higher, I guess. Or just set it to what... maybe about 1475f? Soak time? I even got an unopened 5gal bucket of Park 50 for quenching. I am hoping at that price, I don't have to go through all that, though.
Condition is some forge scale, a heavy patina but no rust. There is definitely some edge flash from the drop forging process so I guess no grinding at all, just a raw forging. Spine is nice and thin, blade for about 60% of its width is a consistent thickness, about .030" or so, by eyeball. I will mike it tomorrow. Okay then, I will say it is definitely a raw forged blank with zero grinding. The big question is if it is hardened or not. If not actually heat treated, there might be some work hardening from the forging process. Scales at first blush look plastic, but pivoting them apart and revealing the inner face definitely changed my mind. I believe they are dyed bone. I will scrape off a sample and burn it, see what it smells like. Not wood, not horn, definitely neither one. Gots to be bone.
Too bad it isn't a little wider. My handy dandy pocket keychain tape measure says it is about 25/32" wide near the nose. 13/64" wide about 3/8" from the heel end. Heel has a lot of taper and is quite rounded at the end. There are shallow but precise and sharp bottom jimps. None on top. Pivot hole is drilled and clear, with some flash at the edges of the hole. Edge, if you want to call it that, has a slight smile. You could take it either way, smiling or straight, though the heel would still have some taper. The back of the spine has a pronounced smile. There is no stamping on the tang. Nothing to say it is Solingen or that it is any particular brand. The pattern is a common one.
A patient man could "grind" this razor with 60 grit wet/dry. Just sayin. But it must be determined that it is already hardened and tempered first. Or sent out for the treatment, before thinning the blade very much.
For $9.99/each, I think it's a decent bit of a razor.
Some of you are wondering if this is a good noob project or not, I am sure. Well, it all depends on whether it is hardened and tempered or not. But the price is right, even if you only want the scales. I may snag a few more of these, depending on how much work I have to put into one and how the finished product does on the film and on the face. More later, when I have time to work on it a little.
I just took an imported Nicholson to one of the three I got. About like ordinary mild steel, maybe a hair harder. Definitely not heat treated yet.
For those without proper equipment, it is still possible to make a razor out of this. First, pick a site with no flammable stuff nearby. Hot coals can pop out and fly a long way. Don't forget your protective equipment... gloves, face shield, long sleeves (leather welding sleeves and tunic would be great) heavy jeans or leathers, and boots that won't catch and hold a burning coal. No lace up boots. Pants legs should be down around boot tops. Dont let your boots be coal catchers or crazy hot steel catchers, at least while your feet are in them. You will need a pit about a foot or foot and a half wide, two feet deep, with a 4" wide slit trench about 6 feet long leading into it, slanted down to the bottom of the pit. Even better, make the pit bigger and line with firebrick, just brick, or even rocks. Not critical as long as your rocks don't explode on you. Some good charcoal. An 8' or 10' piece of steel pipe, not galvanized. Not copper either. Steel. And a hair dryer, hand held type, with a very powerful blower. And some duck tape. Lay the pipe in the trench so the end is within the pit, maybe 1/4 the way from edge to center. Duck tape the hair dryer to the other end. This is your forced draft, which will get your fire temp up crazy high. Build your fire in the pit, keep adding charcoal until there is a deep bed of coals, with the hair dryer on low. Oh yeah, you need tongs, too. And a magnet. And welding gloves. Slowly heat the steel in the fire until it is hot enough that a magnet will no longer stick to it. Don't let the magnet get too hot or it will lose its magnetism. Touch it briefly. When the steel is no longer sticking to the magnet, return to the fire for another 20 minutes, then quench.
Oh I forgot about the quench. You need a pot or bucket or can with a lid, that will hold a couple gallons of oil. You will need enough oil to half fill it. Best is regular quenching oil but you can make do with peanut oil or motor oil or whatever. It should be heated to 110 or 120 degrees fahrenheit. When the razor has soaked in the fire long enough, (too long, too high a temp, no bueno. Not long enough and not hot enough, also no bueno but for just goofing around, not so critical.) grab it by the tongs and thrust it in the warm oil. Don't freak out... it will likely catch fire. No biggie. Thrust it in, hold for a couple seconds, pull it out for a couple, stick it back in the oil and stir it around for about 10 seconds. Then feel free to just drop it in the oil or take it out, whichever. Put a lid on the oil to extinguish any flames if they persist. Now take the razor that now should be hot but not too hot to touch, to your belt sander and make it shiny. Not the whole thing, but definitely the area near the edge. This is so you can see the oxides that form in the tempering process. Not go immediately to a preheated oven (340f to 375f is a good range... cooler = harder but more brittle, hotter = softer but tougher) and leave it in for about an hour, Let it cool naturally. Repeat at a slightly lower temp, then a slightly lower temp. You SHOULD end up with a very usable razor even though this is a most unscientific method with poor temp control and seat of the pants parameters. I wouldn't try to sell the razor but after final grinding, polishing, and honing, you should have a shaver. Pin it between your scales before final honing.
Oh I forgot... the color of the steel. The steel will form oxides on its surface, the color depending on the heat. You are looking for a barely perceptible yellow. Up to a straw yellow is okay. If you ever see any other colors, greens blues browns or purple, you severely overheated the steel and pushed the temper. In the old days, tempering was done by eye, watching the color.
Occasionally a blade will shatter in the quench. If it happens a lot, then try normalizing the razor before heat treating and quenching. Heat it to nonmagnetic, and let it cool naturally. Repeat. You can also experiment with cooling overnight in hot ashes or sand or whatever, for a slower cool. That is how you anneal steel, BTW, which is making it as soft as it can be, for easier cutting or coarse grinding.
Once you have quenched and tempered the steel, you need to figure on proceeding, and not trying to re-do the heat treating. Once you have done your final grinding, absolutely hopeless to go back and HT again... the edge will be much too thin to handle the stress.So HT is a one shot thing, for your purposes.
I used similar methods to make my infamous "barbecue" razors back in the day. Some came out pretty good. Some came out pretty bad. Some didn't come out in one piece. And I set the yard and fence afire a couple times. Myself, too LOL. But it was fun.
I bought a handful of blade only. As said definitely not heat treated. Thanks for that tutorial. That should prove very helpful to others starting out. I have used a charcoal starter chimney and an air mattress inflator. Personally I wished the inflator was more adjustable. It really only had 2 speeds: off and wide open. It worked pretty well though bar that. The sheet metal of the chimney did glow pretty bright orange though. I think a piece of steel water pipe would be better for a small concentrated flame. I may try to construct or at least seeing one in my injury down time.
Back to my Heart razor, no response from the vendor's customer service. After testing the spine of the Heart and another razor and chatting with Bluseman7. It appears that the razor has been heat treated. Initially planned to sand the blade with a dremel but that proved to be futile so I am currently hand sanding with 80 grit sandpaper. I am making progress, the blade started at .9mm and is currently mostly at .6. The plan is to stop between .1mm and.2mm. Then try to even it out. eventually I want the face of the razor to have a crocus finish, the tang and spine will have a high gloss.
I have never done a crocus finish, just read about them. It will be a learning experience.
This project is not a high priority for me so it will be a couple of months before completion.
For those people that have shown interest and tried to help Thank you. I will probably need more help.
