Vibratory Tumbler Media

Good Evening All,

I have read all the threads I could find concerning vibratory tumblers and media choices. It had been some time since the topic has been discussed and I'm hoping to start a discussion about what is working well. I'll kick things off with what I'm using and hopefully some others will join the thread with some other ideas!

I am using a two or three step process depending on how much help a blade needs.

If the razor is in bad shape/ badly oxidized I start with green pyramids that have been treated to Turtle Wax Rubbing Compound and 3m Marine Metal Restorer. In adding the Turtle Wax/3m the mixture can get too thick to keep moving in the tumbler. Adding it slowly over time for the initial load helps with this. Once it's loaded and going frequent refreshing in small amounts seems to keep this from repeating. I've considered putting a dollop of the TW/3m on something a few days ahead and letting it dry out, then grinding the resulting (I assume) dirt clod-esque lump into a powder and adding it to the tumbler, but haven't tested this yet. This step doesn't really polish the blades, but cleans them up pretty well and lets me see what I'm dealing with. If there is Magnetite (black rust) it won't remove it but at least there is some sense of where things are before heading to the buffer.

The entry on vibratory tumblers in the library references mixing pyramids with walnut shell to remove scratches from as low as 320 grit sandpaper. I haven't had success getting green pyramids alone to do this. I haven't tried with the walnut but am very interested in being able to use the tumbler to remove scratches that are deep. Has anyone had success with this? Have you tried other media? Has anyone given ceramics a try? I am concerned ceramic may be too abrasive and could round off parts of the blade that shouldn't be rounded.

Step two is 18/40 walnut shells impregnated with Mothers. This smooths out the green pyramid marks (I'd call it a rough satin finish) and begins the polishing process. Depending on how far the blade went on the buffer/sanding it can start here after finishing that step. If there was no magnetite or pitting just some tarnish I just begin here. If the buffer/sanding scratches are deeper I go back to the pyramids first. Does anyone have experience with 12/20 walnut shells? Is there any difference from 18/40?

The last step is the final polishing. Corn cob with semichrome is my go to here. It seems to do a great job.

Thanks everyone for reading my long first post (after the introduction post). I'll look forward to seeing your responses!

I have no input as I've never used a tumbler but I'm always interested in hearing and seeing new (to me) ideas. I do admire how thorough your efforts have been so far.

Thank you! So many people here (including you- I've read your stuff before) have taken the time and effort to create a resource it seems like it would be inconsiderate not to use it. The long thread (376 posts) from years ago got me started and i don't have a lot of experience yet bo so far I am pleased with the results. I'm hoping this thread will update that information and help others as well as myself.

I know a tumbler has come up before and from what I recall in the distant past the consensus was that a tumbler was too rough for any blade and would damage the edge unless you are starting with a blank and are going to totally grind an edge from scratch. Even then it's kind of rough.

There is a different animal totally and that's a vibratory lap plate. Essentially a flat plate with a thick fabric lining and you saturate it with water and charge it with media, usually levigated alumina or cerium oxide or similar and let it run a few days. We used it in the Geology Lab but I don't see why it wouldn't work for metal as long as you watch it. It just vibrates and causes the object to move around the plate.

I've been using them (vibratory tumblers) with success but there certainly appears to be a limit to how abrasive your media can be. I haven't had any problems with green pyramids, walnut shells or corn cob. I suspect ceramic may be to much, but haven't tried it yet. I may offer a sacrificial blade and give it a try. Here's a link to the old thread you may be referencing-

https://sharprazorpalace.com/worksho...mentation.html


It is pretty old (2008) and it's long (38 pages) but there is a lot of good information. It was started by gssixgun. I started this thread in hopes that the work with these had continued and there was new info concerning media and methods that might be revealed. Maybe gssixgun will weigh in here....

The vibratory lap plate sounds interesting. I have not heard of those before. I'll be up tonight doing some research!

Thank you for the info, I'll report back on what I find.



EDIT- I reread your post and thought I should clarify something. If you were referring to a rotary tumbler I do think it would be an issue for the edge. I am only working with vibratory tumblers.

Are these what you are suggesting?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeuJemEbCbs

Thank you!

Yep, those are them.

Yeah, I thought at first you meant a rotary tumbler. Vibratory is less aggressive I'm sure but I still wonder about blade face etchings. Have you ever used it on one with an etching?

Yes, I’ve found it to be much easier on etching than sanding providing the media is not too aggressive. Walnut and corn cob seem to be safe bets. This is what was written about in the previous threads as well. Since the previous members had success this way and I was able to recreate that success I’m pretty comfortable with these two media choices. I think the green pyramids would be ok too providing the etch wasn’t too shallow and the razor wasn’t left in the tumbler too long.

I’m sure done media would prove too aggressive and remove etchings/round off corners but I haven’t figured out exactly how aggressive one can be before reaching that point. A couple of things I’ve considered trying are ceramic media and rock polishing grit. I think either of those have the potential yo be too aggressive, but might be useful if you were careful. The grits that are closer to the end stages (polishing) especially.

One of the things I like about this system is that with sanding/buffing there are always scratch lines even if very small. With tumblers there is no scratch pattern at all.

I think they have the possibility of producing some interesting finishes depending on the media and technique used. I’ll post some pictures of some finished razors later today as examples.

Well consider that the rock tumbler medium silicon carbide powder (SIC) is what I use to flatten and dress Arkansas stones I would say it is potentially too aggressive. You can wear out a diamond plate on an Ark. Probably even the very fine powder would be quite aggressive. It is the same thing, just smaller particles. It would be interesting to test out some on a worn out junker blade just to see exactly what it would do.

By the way, I take all my pictures with my phone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Well consider that the rock tumbler medium silicon carbide powder (SIC) is what I use to flatten and dress Arkansas stones I would say it is potentially too aggressive. You can wear out a diamond plate on an Ark. Probably even the very fine powder would be quite aggressive. It is the same thing, just smaller particles. It would be interesting to test out some on a worn out junker blade just to see exactly what it would do.

By the way, I take all my pictures with my phone.

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Hi Paul, Sorry for the late response, I was traveling this week and didn't have much of a chance to do hobby stuff. I was thinking I'd start with some 1400 grit Aluminum Oxide rock polish my kids already have and see how it did. As suggested I'll use a junker blade to see how it does. It's pretty mild so I might have to experiment some and work up to a more aggressive media but I'd rather work up slowly. Who knows, some of these might produce interesting finishes.

Happy Easter,

Scott

Crushed walnut shells media you can get them at outdoor stores

LOL 2008

That was an old thread you dug out

Tumblers work really well for cleaning and polishing

If you look I have a start to finish using Buffers too

The more you ask of the Tumbler, the better the Buffers look, that is just a fact, but the finish from the Tumbler is near flawless

I would like to try the vibratory tumbler. I have not seen the aforementioned thread about buffers but I have one and have used it, still do occasionally, but what I keep coming back to is hand sanding and polishing. As with any machine skill is needed to use them properly. That said it is really easy to round off your grind lines and make the definition look muddy.

For precise, detailed, crisp work I just don't know that there is a substitute for hand work. I would like to find that magic machine or combination of them but as of yet have still not found one.

This does not mean that there is not a place for these machines in the process. I have found the sanding drum attachments for drill or grinder to be very useful in shortening the time in sanding but like other machines great care is needed to keep them from getting away from you.

Love to try that tumbler though.

Should you tape your edge before tumbling?

Thank you for your replies and I apologize for the delayed response. I've been helping a friend relocate his new sailboat and was far enough away from civilization that internet access was sparse. I'm back on the hard now and have chosen a razor to do some photos on showing the process to those who haven't seen it.

To be clear, I use the tumbler in combination with a buffer (with greaseless) and hand sanding. The tumbler seems good for finishing but I think the media needed to do any removal of steel would be too abrasive and would damage the blade. So far it seems there is a time and place for each. I have found, as gssixguns pointed out in the old thread and in his post here, that the tumbler finish is amazing if I don't ask to much from it. No scratch lines whatsoever, even under magnification.

I'm particularly interested in possibly using the tumbler with different media to produce different finishes. There is refrence to something called a "starburst" finish in the tumbler article in the Library. I'm anxious to try and reproduce this and see what it looks like.

Cattleman02- I haven't been taping my edges but I've been working with razors that were having a lot done so I expected them to need reset bevels. Doesn't seem to have damaged anything yet but as I am new to honing I'm going to send a couple out (hopefully to Gssixguns) and after I see what his impression is I'll know more.

I should be home in two days and I'll start getting those pictures up.

Scott

I have not done much restore work for some time. I did do quite a bit for a few years. I used the vibratory tumbler a fair bit. I used walnut shell and rubbing compound and it did a great job on cleaning blades. It would get all the black devils spit out but would not cut the steel. It seems the steel is too hard for the medium, but not the rust. I also used it with corn cob and mother’s polish, which was also very gentle, did not remove any major scratches and left a semi gloss finish. Sometimes I would clean a blade in the tumbler, do a full sanding progression, then a semi gloss finish in the tumbler. The tumbler is not fast but requires no participation from me during the proccess. It was all with stuff that I already had, so it was zero expense messing around.