Rust Removal via Electrolysis

There seems to be some interest in Electrolysis for removing rust from razors, it's a pretty simple process. ...Disclaimer; in case you hurt your self, unlikely as it may be, I recommend doing your own research as well, since your dealing with not only chemicals but significant voltages and aqueous solutions (which equals possible danger of electrocution).

Here's a cut and paste from a google search, pretty much sums it up:

What is the method?
Electrolysis is a technique for returning surface rust to iron. It uses the effect of an small low voltage electric current and a suitable electrolyte (solution). It has advantages over the old standbys, like vinegar, Coke, muriatic acid, Naval Jelly, wire brushing, sand blasting etc -- These methods all remove material to remove the rust, including un-rusted surfaces. With many, the metal is left with a "pickled" look or a characteristic color and texture. The electrolytic method removes nothing: by returning surface rust to metallic iron, rust scale is loosened and can be easily removed. Un-rusted metal is not affected in any way.
What about screws, pivots, etc that are "rusted tight"?
The method will frequently solve these problems, without the need for force, which can break things. Is it safe? The solutions used are not hazardous; the voltages and currents are low, so there is no electrical hazard. No noxious fumes are produced. The method is self limiting: it is impossible to over clean an object. Small amounts of hydrogen are emitted in the electrolysis process. Good ventilation or an outdoor work site is all that is needed.
Where did this method come from?
Electrolysis is a standard technique in the artifact restoration business. I wrote this up for the Chronicle of the Early American Industries Association a few years back. Most of the tool collectors around here use it.
What do I need?
A plastic tub; a stainless steel or iron electrode, water and washing soda (Arm & Hammer, for example) and a battery charger. About a tablespoon of soda to a gallon of water. If you have trouble locating the washing soda, others have reported success with baking soda. Also household lye will work just fine. It's a tad more nasty -- always wear eye protection and be sure to add the lye to the water (NOT water to lye!!!) The solution is weak, and is not harmful, though you might want to wear gloves. NOTE: It is the current that cleans, not the solution; nothing is gained by making a more concentrated solution -- DON'T!
How long does the solution last?
Forever, though the loosened rust will make it pretty disgusting after a while. Evaporation and electrolysis will deplete the water from the solution. Add water ONLY to bring the level back.
What about the stainless/iron electrode?
The electrode wants to be large (within reason); if possible, larger than the object being cleaned. The iron electrode works best if it "surrounds" the object to be cleaned, since the cleaning is "line of sight" to a certain extent. An iron electrode will be eaten away with time. Stainless steel has the advantage (some alloys, but not all) in that it is not eaten away. I have had good success with sheet stainless salvaged from a paper towel dispenser. It has a large surface area and is easily shaped to fit the container.
How do I connect the battery charger?
THE POLARITY IS CRUCIAL!! The iron or stainless electrode is connected to the positive (red) terminal. The object being cleaned, to the negative(black). Submerge the object, making sure you have good contact, which can be difficult with heavily rusted objects. Get it backwards and your object will be relentlessly eaten away! Make connections on a part of your electrode that protrudes out of the solution, or your clamps will erode rapidly.
How do I know if it is working?
Turn on the power. If your charger has a meter, be sure some current is flowing. Again, on heavily rusted objects, good electrical contact may be hard to make-it is essential. Multi-part objects may not have good electrical connections between them. Fine bubbles will rise from the object when cleaning is in progress.
How long do I leave it?
The time depends on the size of the object and of the iron electrode, and on the amount of rust. You will have to test the object by trying to wipe off the rust. If it is not completely clean, try again. Typical cleaning time for moderately rusted objects is a few hours. Heavily rusted objects can be left over night.
How do I get the rust off after I remove the object?
Rub the object under running water. A paper towel will help. For heavily rusted objects, a plastic pot scrubber can be used, carefully. Depending on the amount of original rust, you may have to re-treat. The amount of mechanical action will depend on the fragility of the object. Use your discretion.
My object is too big to fit. Can I clean part of it?
Yes. You can clean one end and then the other. Lap marks should be minimal if the cleaning was thorough.
After I take it out, then what?
The clean object will acquire surface rust very quickly, so wipe it dry and dry further in a warm oven or with a hair dryer/heat gun. You may want to apply a light oil or a coat of wax to prevent further rusting.
Will the method remove pitting?
No. It only operates on the rust in immediate contact with unrusted metal. What's gone is gone. What will it look like when I am done? The surface of rusted metal is left black. Rusted pits are still pits. Shiny unrusted metal is untouched.
What about nickle plating, paint, japanning and the like?
Sound plating will not be affected. Plating under which rust has penetrated will usually be lifted. The solution is likely to soften most paints.Test with a drop of solution in an inconspicuous place. Remove wood handles if possible before treating.
How can I handle objects that are awkward to clean?
There are lots of variants: suspending an electrode inside to clean a cavity in an object; using a sponge soaked in the electrolyte with a backing electrode to clean spots on large objects or things that shouldn't be submerged (like with lots of wood)
How can I dispose of the solution?
The bath will last until it gets so disgusting that you decide it is time for a fresh one. There is nothing especially nasty about it-it's mildly basic-so disposal is not a concern, except you may not want all the crud in your drains.
Can I use metal containers?
This is highly risky. Galvanized metal can introduce zinc into the solution. If you have used lye, it will attack aluminum. You may have problems with electrical shorts, etc. Stick to plastic.
How can I clean odd shaped objects?
Be ingenious. Plastic PVC pipe and eave troughs, wooden boxes with poly vapor barrier, kids wading pools, etc.

For razors you probably want to remove the scales.

If heard ot this exact process for tractor parts, just never thought about using it on my razors.

I've used electrolysis to clean rusty cast iron pans many times and it works very well. I used a piece of stainless for the electrode, and a battery charger for the power source. It bubbles and forms a great brown scum on the top of the fluid.

After "cooking" all it takes is a brief scrub and all the rust is gone. It's quite amazing.

Having said that, I'd be worried about doing this on a razor. The edge is so fine that I think it may be destroyed. But it might be worth a try with a junk razor.

Randy

For some further reading: http://www.htpaa.org.au/article-electro.php

The HTPAA is The Hand Tool Preservation Association of Australia & has this page on electrolysis ~ as always be careful with jobs like this.
....... momma

I don't really see the point of doing this if you are going to restore the blade at all. Is it just for removing rust on a blade that you weren't planning on sanding? Looks like this method removes metal anyway, so wouldn't you have to restore it afterwards? Honestly, when you sand a blade to begin restoring it, it takes any rust away immediately. I'm not putting this method down, it just seems like a lot goes into this to take rust away. :shrug:

Well, a few people got to talking about this in another thread, and instead of discussing it further there, here it is.

It would be useful to someone not looking to do a complete resto, just to stop the damage in progress and leave a usable razor, and it can probably be done without removing the scales (depends on pivot pin material, I think some metals may have an adverse reaction, I'll look into it).

You could also throw a bunch of razors into the tank at once, to clean them all while you work elsewhere, if for no other reason then to leave the surface that much cleaner before doing the sanding.

And as far as the Electrolysis deteriorating the razor, that is not an issue:

"The electrolytic method removes nothing: by returning surface rust to metallic iron, rust scale is loosened and can be easily removed. Un-rusted metal is not affected in any way."

Basically what is happening is the chemical bonds that form rust are being broken and rendered useless, nothing happens to the base metal.

Will this remove the black tarnish from a blade?

If the razor is rusted, it will be pitted as well.
Which means sandpaper or grindstones anyway.

I think it's understood that this is not a replacement for sanding out pits left by rusting, it's a quick, safe, low maintenance method of cleaning anything that is not the base metal, off of the base metal eg. rust & tarnishing.

The best thing about electrolysis is that it get rid of ALL rust. Even if the pits remain there will be no spot of rust still in the bottom. This won't get rid of black tarnish. Horn scales would be ruined. Wood scales would be ruined. Bakelight or plastic would be fine in a soda solution but damaged in lye water. Pins are brass, I don't know how they would behave, they might be clean, the might dissolve and plate the electrode, they might dissolve and plate the razor :o .

The best uses for this process are usually bulk jobs or complex parts with lots of nooks and crannies. IT takes a while but works without anyone present or paying any attention. There aren't any really dangerous chemicals, even if you use a lye solution it is safer than many chemical rust removers. Given a large enough electrode it will get rid of thick rust. There is virtually no elbow grease involved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philadelph

I don't really see the point of doing this if you are going to restore the blade at all. Is it just for removing rust on a blade that you weren't planning on sanding? Looks like this method removes metal anyway, so wouldn't you have to restore it afterwards? Honestly, when you sand a blade to begin restoring it, it takes any rust away immediately. I'm not putting this method down, it just seems like a lot goes into this to take rust away. :shrug:

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If you look at the chemistry involved, you'll see that metal is actually being re-formed rather than taken away. When steel rusts, the iron in it reacts with oxygen to form iron oxide. When it reacts, iron loses an electron. With electrolysis, you're using electrical power to 'push' those electrons back into the iron. The solutions are just there to provide positive and negative ions, all of the work is being done by the electrical current. That's why the other piece of metal rusts, you're 'stealing' it's electrons to give them back to the razor. So if you have a really badly corroded blade or rust in an area you can't reach with sandpaper (say down inside of really fine grooves), you can actually save some of that corroded metal by converting it back to steel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roadrunner

If you look at the chemistry involved, you'll see that metal is actually being re-formed rather than taken away. When steel rusts, the iron in it reacts with oxygen to form iron oxide. When it reacts, iron loses an electron. With electrolysis, you're using electrical power to 'push' those electrons back into the iron. The solutions are just there to provide positive and negative ions, all of the work is being done by the electrical current. That's why the other piece of metal rusts, you're 'stealing' it's electrons to give them back to the razor. So if you have a really badly corroded blade or rust in an area you can't reach with sandpaper (say down inside of really fine grooves), you can actually save some of that corroded metal by converting it back to steel.

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Rust is made up of larger molecules than the iron/steel it came from. This is why rust puffs up and out from the material it is formed on. So when the rust is converted back to iron, it is no longer attached to the base material, and can be simply brushed off. It does save a lot of steel in so much as nothing is removed in this process except the rust itself.

Very cool information here!

No one has mentioned gold wash!
This method would remove the rust leaving the gold in tact.
Mmmm wish I had known earlier!
Tony H

Yeah, and getting rust out of the Jimps is nearly impossible with sandpaper (if your razor has jimps that is).

I don't think the dissolved pin material would plate the razor, the current would plate the anode if anything, if I'm not mistaken.

I tried this process last night, my main goal was to protect the gold wash.

1) it does remove probably all the rust but leaves a tough tarnish. MAAS can get the darkest part of the tarnish off, but if the blade was bad enough for rust to form you probably still need to sand it.

2) If you think that rust has formed on top of the goldwash then this process will remove the surface rust and reveal that the rust didn't form on top of the goldwash, but rather that the integrity of the goldwash was compromised and the rust rust is actually on the steel of the blade-even if 99% of the gold was looks perfect, the speckled rust you see translates to a speckling of compromised gold wash.

This should be obvious because gold never rusts. Unfortunately I didn't think about this when I recently purchased a slightly rusted razor because I really liked the near perfect (but slightly speckled) goldwash. (Luckily the razor is still a winner and has attractive etching!)

3) Left the celluloid scales on-no damage

4) Summary: Easy and cheap to do. Basically accomplishes removing surface rust with no effort and little time-this was the only benefit to me.

Luke

I have used this electrolysis to clean everything from large tractor parts to very small gun parts and have always had a great deal of success. I would only use a soda solution with a razor (as opposed to some of the lye or vinegar based recipes out there). I have never had any problems with brass or bronze degrading in an electrolysis bath.

The folks who have pointed out that rust=pitting=grinding are absolutely correct, however its a fantastic way to see exactly what you have to work with before you start and you can be fairly certain that all the rust is gone with none hiding in nooks and crannies and the walls and bottoms of the pits. It is great for tight spots and fine textures like knurling.

It is imperative that the steel be protected with an rust inhibitor after electrolysis as the metal is totally "naked" and will begin to rust immediately and aggressively once it is removed from the bath. You cant leave this on the work bench over night and forget to oil it or you will find it covered in rust the next morning... ask me and my 1911A1 how I know. :mad:

(for those 1911A1 lovers out the who are tying up a noose and checking my location on the googlemap to come lynch me... don't worry, it cleaned up just fine)

Among other courses, I failed basic electronics in high school thirty years ago. To this very day I close my eyes whenever I plug something into a socket! That being said, can someone please literally draw a picture of this process? I'm having a hard time visualizing.... I'm seeing clamping a razor and dropping it into a bucket full of baking soda and water with another ss clamp soaking in it! I fully accept all responsibility!

I'm in agreement that some pictures of ppl's setup would be cool. Plus maybe a shopping list for the next time I head to Lowe's, Wally World, etc....

TIA!