Just received my new Lyman Turbo and it's loaded with walnut. Tossed a W&B in and it's off and running. I'll check in a couple hours to see if anythings happening.
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Just received my new Lyman Turbo and it's loaded with walnut. Tossed a W&B in and it's off and running. I'll check in a couple hours to see if anythings happening.
Day 2. Walnut is definitely making a dent in the 280 grit sanding marks, but not as fast as I'd hoped. I decided to throw in a Russian blade I had sitting about to see if I could safely tumble two. I don't hear any clinking so it seems ok so far.
I hate waiting.
I wish I knew more about the computer:thinking:, but I don't even know how to post pictures of my first restoration! Anyway, if you go here; www.cabelas.com and punch in, ceramic media, you'll go to the site. I do know there are others out there, too. I'll try and find other sources tonight. It is expensive, but for us shooters, we may be able to kill two birds with one stone. Unfortunately I can't be the ceramic guinea pig here. Too much $ spent on restoration razors!!!!:nono:
OK, here's another site for ceramic media www.biglube.com Click on How To, on the left hand side.
Other info: First, you have to have a tumbler that's made for wet media-meaning, no holes in the bottom, as in attached bowl bolts. This ceramic media might not work. It seems to be used in the lapidary type tumblers, which I'm sure would shread a razor up pretty good. There is evidence, however, that you can buy certain kinds of brass tumblers that work like the regular vibratory kind that don't spin around. Second, here's something else I found while researching media at my bp site, you can buy walnut, or corn cob media at Petsmart! I forgot about this one, myself being a previous snake owner. It's used like kitty litter, except it's for reptiles. When lizards and snakes gulp down their food, you have to be careful what's in the cage with them as you don't want them eating a load of sand, or such. The cob, or nut media passes right through their edbd systems without harm! Haven't checked the price yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yul b. nekst
Here are the links to Petsmart.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=3039712
http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2753590
http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2753575
You know I have both of these at the house right now and never thought of using them in this context... Now I just need to get the tumbler itself. Thanks for the ideas.
Chief
I have used the vibrating tumbler and it will do a great job, just like it does for dirty brass. youve just got to figure out what kind of media(cob or walnut) and what cleaning/polishing agent is best, which depends on how dirty/rusty and pitted it is. one media is extra strength cleaner the other more of a polisher. as for the eddge, it will have to be re-honed anyway. I would be careful of any metal parts inside the tumbler and i would tape or cover them in some fashion. have fun:tu
I bought the Cabela's Case Tumbler Kit this weekend (Yay for points!) as I was picking up some crow decoys for my bro.
Here's the linky: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...853&hasJS=true
I got a W&B that needs to be run through it. My question is this:
With the corncob media....should I leave the scales on, or take them off?
So far there has not been a great success rate with the scales on...
But your guess is a good as mine..... My personal opinion on this, if ya want it, is the the cone in the middle would interfere with the razor, causing either bad flow or dinged up edge... That is just an opinion though
Gotcha. Well, it looks like I'll have to cut off the scales and order some pins then.
I'll try to get that all done tonight and show off my setup, but I'm not sure if I have access to the metal-cutting tools I may need to remove the scales (no Dremel available right now). Some Kasper ingenuity may have to come into play! I'll post pics tonight.
my experience an open razor gets its edge beat to hell. so won't find me recommending it, once was enough.
I haven't had this issue at all, but I also only put two razors in at a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by syslight
As for scales on/off, all my attempts have been without the scales but logically it seems to me that it would interfere with the flow and not let the blade circulate as well.
I need to clarify... by open razor i meant one opened to about 270 degrees with the scales still on.Quote:
Originally Posted by D2T
Normally i have 3 blades in the tumblers at the same time with no ill effects on the edges. more than three and you run the risk of them clanking together in an unhealthy way.
Ok, here's my first try. Walnut with a few ounces of metal polish. Ran it about 13 hours and the blade came out pretty shiny. I did tape the bevel with electrical tape before tossing the blade in the vibrator. Sorry I didn't take "before" photos so it's kind of a waste to post "after pics..... but here they are:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...son/turbo1.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...son/turbo2.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...son/turbo3.jpg
After the Vibe treatment I still had a spot of pitting at the tip. Hit it with sand paper and then the buffing wheels.
I suppose I should get some walnut media, eh? The blade I have is beat up pretty good, so the walnut would make much quicker work of it, from what I'm reading here.
I'll still run it in the corncob and see what happens. Hopefully this razor will pay for itself when it's all done.
Kasper, think of the media this way : Walnut 4K and Corn Cob 8K. One starts the polish and the other mirrors it up.
OK, here's some Petsmart prices:
25# Corn Cob $11.99
25# Walnut $18.99
7# Corn Cob $6.99
7# Walnut $8.99
This is UNTREATED media, and you'll find it in either the reptile, bird, or small animal aisles. Each one is marketed for the target animal.
Also, I'm going to try some of Keith's LIQUID Chrome Oxide on the cob media. This should be made to order for it!
Okay time to let you guys know what I have found out.
First off the tumbler hasn't hurt any scales but you are right in the fact that the razor doesn't tumble or rotate properly with scales on so the best option is without scales.
Secondly after trying all sorts of exotic media I've found walnut shells to be the best for cleaning, I am still trying different grits of walnut but I assume the lower the grit the better it will clean.
Don't bother trying black beauty as it breaks apart too quickly and it also cuts the hell of your hands, damn it anyway.
The treated corn cob seems to be polishing alright but I am still messing more with the cleaning aspect this far.
And this whole thing will not take the place of the heavy sanding, if it is stained badly and you want a mirror finish then sanding is going to have to be done.
Ted
okay, so i think that i found the Art of Shaving in the reloading world. visiting the grandparents in Tyler, TX and wend into a indoor range/gunshop. i don't want to use names or anything ***cough Lock and Load**cough cough*** off the loop***cough cough*** but i was shocked.
so i see a reloader sitting in the corner, all the casings and extras all around on shelves. no tumblers. walk over to the counter and was waiting to be helped. 2 others walked in and got service right in front of me. of course, the idiot boy behind the counter instructed them to the counter in front of me, where i had to move for them to use it. i was holding my 3 year old and didn't budge, eyballing the boy the whole time. i knew at this point he was, wait for it.......an IDIOT!!!
finally seeing as how i was blocking traffic, he asked if he could assist me. 'do you have any tumblers?' i queried? 'what's that?' he replied. imagine me giving him the dumbest look i could give him. about that time, the manager basically ran around the counter and let me know they were out. i guess he wanted to save face when he had a counter full or people and the person helping them all did not know anything. so anyway, no tumbler. poor service, stupid staff, reminds me of the AOS.
vgod
Hello Gents, I have one question.
My walnut media is not treated with anything.
"All natural".How would I incorporate a "bar" of red rouge compound
into the walnut media to make it most effective, ie.. shred with a cheese
grater or melt it in somehow. I have the blue magic metal polish for the
corn cob but am stumped on mixing the rouge/walnut part. Or should I just try using blue magic in both the walnut & the corn cob.
Thanks in advance.
Gary
I got a bottle of Turtle Wax Liquid Rubbing Compound and added a little over half of it to my untreated walnut media. Gave it a few hours of tumbling by itself, then used a spoon to stir through the now reddish walnut media to declump some that didn't mix completely. Ran it another few hours, tested again. Walnut media now "treated"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByronTodd
Thanks for that tip Byron.
Gary
Alright.
Yeah, I talked gssixgun into trying this, but hadn't really posted anything of note myself. But I showed some of my results in chat channel, and Glen (gssixgun) said he would hunt me down with one of his shoot at a 1000 yards and kill custom rifles if I didn't post my results here...
I like Glen, and I would hate to have his conscience bothering him for the short few minutes after he took that shot to take me... so I guess I'll post:
Here is one crappy representative of a *before* photo of a Case Red Imp. I was given this razor and it had a chip in it. I got the chip out, sharpened it, cleaned it up (skipping another good story here), cleaned it up some more and darn it! the dremel jerked and I rechipped the darn thing in almost the exact same spot as the chip that was previously in! Darn!
http://lh4.google.com/byrontodd/R6-f...0%20-%2006.jpg
More crappy before pics can be found here: http://picasaweb.google.com/byrontodd/RedImp
So, I read some on restoration, I order a ton of wet sandpaper from Rockler.com, purchase more restoration stuff and get to hand wet-sanding... Three hours in, I'm wet-sanding with 220 still, reading the restore chat, and notice that I haven't made a freaking dent with the pits or any of the nastiness of the razor. I post that in channel and since Joe Chandler laughed at me, I figured I was either doing something really wrong or just new to it.... Turns out I was just new to it - as Joe knew... (He's a nice guy no matter what all his friends say!)
Five hours (and on another day) later with the 220 grit, I realize that I've de-pitted the thing! So I take the plunge with the 320 grit... I go at it for an hour, and get discouraged because I could still see the 220 grit sand lines...
Then this discussion came up.
After Glen (gssixgun) did all the initial work of finding out if this actually worked, I bought a tumbler, an extra media bowl, untreated walnut media, untreated corn cob media, and flizt liquid polish. I put the imp into the walnut media and let it go for 72 hours (checking it from time to time). I, like Philadelph, didn't see any results other than basic cleaning of the blade after that time. I asked Glen why it didn't work for me. Bottom line, untreated walnut media doesn't do much. I went to Wally World, bought a bottle of Turtle Wax Liquid Rubbing Compound, I poured over half into the walnut media. Four hours of tumbling later, I mixed the stuff up some more to break up the clumps and ran it another 6 hours.
That brings me to around 8AM Monday morning. I dropped the Red Imp into the now treated walnut media and let it go. I briefly checked Tuesday morning and Tuesday night with some noticeable differences, but not enough to talk about. However, tonight, I cut of the tumbler and pulled out the Red Imp.
Let me show some more bad pictures:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5246/img0955ws0.th.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2...0954kk6.th.jpg
Ok, so they aren't that bad.... :) (and I mean from what they show, not in the photographic sense...)
As someone new to wetsanding and restoration what advice was given that turned things around?Quote:
Originally Posted by ByronTodd
I believe BT was just stating that he didn't realize it can take hours and hours to sand out pits.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexJade
I gotta get to Wally-World to pick up some walnut and some of that polishing stuff! I got a perfect candidate blade, but I've only got corncob.
Uh, yes.... Hours and hours and hours. That crazy carbon steel used by Case is torture on fingers. Joe laughed because he evidently has messed with some 132 Red Imps before and knew how hard the stuff is....Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelph
so with you guys running these things for days and days on end, any clue as to what your electricity bill is going to go up to? i really want one, but i cannot justify it if i in turn make my electric bill jump$100 a month.
vgod
I cant see it taking any more electricity than the small fridge i have in the bedroom for drinks. It's not a power tool that uses tons of amps. More of a rock tumbler.
Being an engineer, I like to @#%^ with stuff. In fact, I'm sure 99% of the people on this forum do or we'd have some other more boring hobby :)
I decided to take one for the team and buy some plastic media for my tumbler and see how it works out. The media I bought was Clean-Cut™ Fine Cut Pyramid media. It proudly claimed:
Now I have no idea what a three micro-inch finish means. I didn't even bother to look it up. It was the confidence with which the above statement was typed that drew me in! :D At $19/5lb it wasn't the cheapest media. When it arrived I had some concerns that either this media wouldn't last very long as it seemed pretty brittle. So I throw it in my tumbler along with a Rodgers and Sons I had lying around and....Quote:
Fine-cut media leaves parts at three micro-inches with an extremely smooth, but non-reflective,finish
....after two hours I checked and didn't see much of a difference. Ah well, I figured I'd give it more time. So my wife comes home and all she can say is
It seemed at least 10 times louder than walnut media. The tumbler was sitting in the kitchen up until this point. In the interest of saving my marriage there were two options: get it to the basement or find a way to quiet it down.Quote:
Originally Posted by D2T's Loving (albiet often cranky) Wife
Being the lazy...errr, efficient person that I am I decided to alter my experiment instead of moving it's location. I added just enough water to the media to keep it quiet. This didn't take much.
Of course I had my concerns that water would rust/tarnish my blades but it's always fun to learn from your mistakes.
*** 9 hours later ***
I wake up, have my morning constitutional, let the dog out for his, and then go to check on my tumbler. My findings:
The good
- the water didn't destroy my tumbler. No adverse effects. If I filled it too much I'd have a problem.
- The engravings are still present on my razor, and the rest of it is extremely smooth
The bad
- Massive tarnish. The blade is almost black in appearance. I tried polishing a few spots and it comes off with a little work. Possibly a roll in the walnut/corncob'll work that out for me.
The ugly
- My photography skills. Here are some pictures documenting my experiment. I'll just point you to my photobucket folder since there are quite a few.
Overall I'd say the experiment was a success. The results were much faster than I'd had for walnut. Assuming the tarnish can come out in a walnut or corncob cycle I will continue to use this method.
Nice. Why not take the "hard" road and just leave the water out but move the tumbler? lol That might have a better result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelph
Yes, that might've :) My next test might be without the water. I was also considering using mineral oil instead of water.
Not sure if it will work the same but when I polish jewelry in a rock tumbler I put a small squirt of Dawn dish soap in it. it helps keep that black junk from adhering to the jewelry. I tumble Stainless Steel, Copper, Titanium and some Silver with Stainless Steel shot for mediaQuote:
Originally Posted by D2T
Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBob
I'll give that a shot. thanks! A night in walnut loaded with CrO cleared it up, but I'd prefer not to have to deal with it at all.
Lots of good work going on in this thread, many people here have jumped in with both feet and done more experimenting then we could have ever hoped for.....
I think with out a doubt we have established that this is a viable method of getting an almost perfect mirror finish with out spending hours of hand cramping hours working on each blade...
My system has been proven on my 3rd razor now, and here is my break down
Sunday morning, Scrape away excess rust off blade, using a small corn razor... Start with 220 grit sandpaper and rough off the worst of the stains and rust, move to 320 grit and continue as normal, cleaning up the blade, then moving to 400 and finaly leaving a smooth clean finish ( this takes 1/2 to 1 hour)
Sunday morning the blade goes in the Treated Walnut tumbler....
Wed night after work, blade comes out of the walnut and I switch it to the Corn Cob...
Sunday morning the blade is finished and I start again...
Using this system I can work 2 blades every week if I have the need....
This is what I have done with my first 3 blades so far and I am getting mirror results... This one is a DD Special #1
Attachment 8896
I spoke with Bill Ellis on this subject and he told me that "in a nutshell"
he had used ths method in the past and he has a large tumbler. He told me
that he got impatient at the time it took & he has a lot of restore's to do.
He also mentioned that it does a decent job but not so well on the pitting.
So I guess if your not restoring alot of blades, this can get most of the job done in a decent way. I will start posting my before & after pics shortly.
This is a great thread and we have to keep it going. Also would like take
the time to thank the guys who started this thread and it is more info that I could ask for. But let's keep it going.
Gary
Since I really haven't posted my conclusions on this topic I guess I'll do so now.
This is a great option but it isn't perfect for everyone. Myself, regardless of whether or not my tumbler broke, the results no matter how well it works do not balance out the time it takes. NOTE that this is only MY personal opinion! You can get great results, but I would rather hand sand from 400 up (which is the fastest part of the hand sanding process anyway). If you want to get a blade with nothing but mirror with this process and the blade you start has a lot of pitting, it will take hours of hand sanding before you can use the tumbler to begin with. For me, mirror polish isn't the greatest thing on earth. I think it has its time and place. I also have a lot of blades to work on, for myself and others, so I prefer the relative "speed" of doing the work by hand. I actually have given up on the tumbler as a viable option for myself for good.
Don't think I am downplaying this, because I'm not. I do think that if you don't already have a tumbler and want to do this, it is a good idea to really think it through before laying down the cash. Just remember that if your razor is any less than perfect, it will still take hours of hand work before the 3+ days of waiting for the tumbler to finish polishing. Thanks again to Glen and BT for their spearheading this experiment. Good luck!
But the tumbler is working while you can be doing something else. Many folks don't have the large blocs of time for the sandpaper but may have time for a tumbler. I don't know what time is involved in the tumbler because I haven't read every post but I am usually eager to try any method that allows my work to get done without me having to do it (lazy? no no no, efficient!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelph
I agree. If I was in the business of restoring razors this method would probably be a little too slow for my needs. But I'm not, I'm just a code monkey that likes to pick up interesting little hobbies ;)
THanks for the up front work and out of the box thinking, guys.
I am a wee bit confused...YES! more than usual.
After reading each post twice...I come away with the idea that the walnut with cleaner/polish will do away with most of the scut work sanding. Just work at the bad parts with some 220 for a while to loosen it up and let the blade sit in the tumbler for a day or two.
THEN move on to corn cob with polish to get a mirror shine.
Nothing is ever 100% so there will be differences in all blades.
Keep the scales on. this extends the time in tumbler a lot.
The most recent posts indicate, to me, that sanding up to ~ 400 is needed before tumbling.
What is the consensus? If any????
Best to all.
This is exciting and fun. I love experimentation.
I have no tumbler(s) or media. Yet.
:)
Experience so far has shown that 220 & 320 grit scratches will survive extended lengths of exposure to any combination of walnut media/compounds and corncob media/compounds. So far.
Boiled down, that means if you want a mirror finish, you need to do something to the razor first to get it to 400 equivalent grit. From there:
Walnut Media + Rubbing Compound (Turtle Wax Liquid worked for me) + time will take the razor to an almost mirror finish.
Followed by Corncob Media + Tumbler Liquid (Flitz worked for me) + time will take the razor to mirror finish.
If you had left 220 and 320 grit scratches, they'll be barely visible after the above treatments - meaning it's not **fully** mirror. If you depit the razor and sand (or buff or grind) up through 400 grit sanding, you should have a mirror / blemish free finish.
The extension or continuation of this as an "experiment" is whether we might be able to use some sort of ceramic media and ??? compound to depit and clean up what we're doing by hand with 220 and 320 grit sandpaper....
Does that help?
(PS. I'll post pictures of my Red Imp (hard HARD HARD carbon steel - as in worse case ) to show what I mean by what's left after the treatments....)
