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  1. #11
    Cheapskate Honer Wildtim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syslight View Post
    Hmm... if one of my Livi's were messed up (beyond normal honing fix) i would send it to Lynn and let him worry about it
    Same here, Other than the Maestro himself I doubt that there is anyone with more experience sharpening them. In fact I wouldn't mess with it, that way you can, honestly, say you're not responsible for putting the moustache on that particular Mona Lisa.

  2. #12
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsenfw View Post
    It's hard to decipher what's going on in the pics. The hone wear on the spine is very little and narrow, it's just uneven down the length of the blade and narrower on one side.

    I believe tape was used in honing this blade after setting the bevel. I'm sending it to Glen for evaluation though. It be nice if the bevel were even and close to equal on both sides. If it's fixed and brought to shave ready, i'll always use tape on it after that lol.

    Wouldn't it be good to set the bevel with no tape on a new razor so the angle is solid and honing is easier? Do people sometimes tape new razors straight away, even when setting the edges bevel?
    Good move to send it to Glen. In a perfect world the bevel would be uniform for the length of the blade and on either side. Unfortunately it ain't always that way. If the spine isn't spot on you may get a bevel that is uneven but it doesn't necessarily mean it won't give a fine shave. I always tape a blade before I hone it. I have too many to try and remember which was taped and which was not. IMHO taping before setting a bevel would be advisable in any case.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

  3. #13
    Senior Member blabbermouth ChrisL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL View Post
    if you don't use tape when setting a bevel, then add it later, you are apparent changing the angle and creating a secondary bevel as I understand it. however recently that has become the fashion for final polishing, to make a micro bevel.

    I agree with the above statement. Doing this adds a secondary bevel.

    The same when you tape in the beginning but remove it during, you will get secondary bevel and won't be polishing that edge.
    I agree removing tape will mean that you wouldn't be polishing the edge but not because you'd be creating a secondary bevel, but for the opposite reason as seen below in the second of the two crude diagrams. the edge is lifted off the stone after removing tape. This is bad.

    Name:  Razor angle example.jpg
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    That's just my 2 cents.

    Chris L
    "Blues fallin' down like hail." Robert Johnson
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  4. #14
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    If you tape the spine, set the bevel and continue to hone throughout the whole progression it will come out just fine. If you tape it only for the bevel setting you will have to remove a bit of metal to get down to the edge but I don't think that you will wear the spine nearly as much as if you set the bevel without tape. Then again I suppose it depends on the condition of the blade you are starting with.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

  5. #15
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Wow!!!! nice diagram Chis I wish I knew how to do those...
    Absolutely correct too...
    If you were to look at the top one and lift the back again it would show a double bevel with just the very very fine edge touching the hone
    ....

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD View Post
    Good move to send it to Glen. In a perfect world the bevel would be uniform for the length of the blade and on either side. Unfortunately it ain't always that way. If the spine isn't spot on you may get a bevel that is uneven but it doesn't necessarily mean it won't give a fine shave. I always tape a blade before I hone it. I have too many to try and remember which was taped and which was not. IMHO taping before setting a bevel would be advisable in any case.
    Really? My inexperienced logic would think that setting an initial narrow, but very flat and even spline bevel, would help later in consistent honing. Even if taped every time after for honing. Just because a new spline just comes to a point not a flat surface so to speak.

    I understand the creation of a double bevel, I was just speaking of a new blade where a lot of work is needed to sharpen the edge, where honing out the double bevel would be implied.

    I'll stop my speculation and just have Glen's experienced eyes take a look lol

    Has anyone taped an EDGE to fix a spline bevel? The last thing I want is the edge bevel even wider, it's huge! lol
    Last edited by tsenfw; 11-26-2008 at 05:27 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL View Post
    But in effect as you keep honing, without the tape, aren't you kinda creating a second bevel?

    Better pics than I could have done.
    Tape is so thin assuming you use one layer, the angle change probably isn't huge. I'm guessing if you were to remove one layer of tape, it would take minimal honing to remove any double bevel created.

  8. #18
    Senior Member blabbermouth ChrisL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL View Post
    But in effect as you keep honing, without the tape, aren't you kinda creating a second bevel?

    Better pics than I could have done.
    I've never thought of it that way since such a practice would be the reverse of what would be appropriate, but if bevel = angle then I'd say by definition you'd be correct.

    Chris L
    "Blues fallin' down like hail." Robert Johnson
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  9. #19
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsenfw View Post
    Really? My inexperienced logic would think that setting an initial narrow, but very flat and even spline bevel, would help later in consistent honing. Even if taped every time after for honing.

    I'll stop my speculation and just have Glen's experienced eyes take a look lol
    To tape or not to tape has been an ongoing debate. If you do a forum search you will find lively discussions on the topic with strongly held opinions on both sides. I opt to tape all of mine because I have so many that if I tried to recall which I had taped versus which I had not it would be impossible. If I thought I was doing harm to the blade I wouldn't tape any. After reading everything I could find on the subject as well as honing a mess of razors I am convinced that the addition of one layer of electrical tape isn't going to negatively affect the geometry of the razor. If you spend $1000.00 on a Tim Zowada razor you will receive a blade that was honed with 1 layer of tape until the final session where it is finished with 3 layers to set the fore mentioned secondary bevel. Apparently Tim doesn't find any harm in using tape to hone his razors. If it is good enough for him it is good enough for me.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

  10. #20
    . Bill S's Avatar
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    I guess that there is no way you could unwind the trade? I don't think that razor is ever going to be the way that it should. If there isn't any way to send it back, then sending it to an expert for evaluation is a great idea.

    Sometimes razormakers will coat a narrow strip along the edge of a Damascus blade before the acid dip (which brings out the pattern in the steel). This leaves a shiny, un-etched strip at the edge which looks like a wide bevel, but it protects the very edge from erosion. If this is (or was) the case the actual bevel could have been smaller than it appears. The spine and shoulder wear seem to evidence some kind of repair gone wrong IMHO. Good luck.

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