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Any one give me a 2nd opinion here. ?
This one's just in for a hone job but I'm suspecting cell rot tho no active red rust is showing. Had this one in quarantine a few days now. not getting rusty but it just looks suspicious. Not sure whether to recommend a rescale or just hone it & give it back to the customer.
Thanx.
I don't think it's rot, but I'm not sure. Most rot I've seen is only on the portion of the blade that sits between the scales when the blade is closed. I think it also usually looks more like colored rust than blackened stains.
Good point about the location but as far as the colour goes I'm sure the seller cleaned it up.
Still, it hasn't rusted over a few days so I'm prolly worried about nothing.
What he said!!Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
Thanx guys. I get it but I have seen black tarnish on a fresh resto after 3 days in dodgey scales.
I wonder how long it takes for the red rust to develop ?
The ones that I've seen with cellulose breaking down have an echo of the tortoiseshell effect on the blade - it must be hard to see if it has been cleaned, but maybe you could make out some registration effects of the pattern of the scales on the blade in different lights/angles?
Regards,
Neil
I agree w/ Holli. I have found that the darker stains come form lather left on the blade or between the scales when the razor is stored but I am sure there are other reasons for it's development.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
Not to be the one to rain on the parade, but cell rot might not even show on the blade...
Os I can't tell from yer pics, but take yer magnifying glass and look at the scales really close with a light behind them you can actually see the fibers of the celluloid breaking down they sorta look like fiberglass at that stage sorta stringy runners in the scales...
I have tried and tried to nail down the real positive signal of cell rot like Smell, Looks, Rust, etc: but it just doesn't always show up the same in each case.. You have to use all the symptoms to for sure nail it down...
Some where back in my old threads you will find one about cell rot with pics,, when I get to work and have high speed I'll link it here...
Guess I was assuming onimaru55 was suspecting cell rot based on blade rust. Other than being contagious to other straights, if cell rot is hard to ID and not showing up as 'rust' on the blade why would it be a concern and what would the other detrimental characteristics be? :shrug:
OK I have searched high and low for that original thread, but it seems that I only posted on it and did not start it, so it is somewhere in almost 3000 posts....
As to the problems of cell rot the only one other than the eventual destruction of the scales, the only real problem is the it is contagious, because of the off gassing... It seems that different scales and different razors react differently to this.. The one that I posted in the thread had extreme scale rot but not a mark on the Sta-Sharp blade... Others have extreme patterned rust on the blade but hardly any indication on the scales...
:thinking: maybe there are different strains to the cell rot virus :D
You may find this thread helpful - thank dwessell for subscription folders!Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...-d-repair.html
[PS: The attachment search strategy, brilliant Glen!]
Super Lee to the rescue that's the one !!!!!
I just found it too by going back through my pic attachmnets :rofl2:
TY LEE :rock:
Thanx to all for the great input & Thanx Glen and Lee for the links.
Sure is nice to have a sounding board when yer stuck.
My conclusions on this are : Because the rust etc was so prolific & not relational to scale pattern I'll assume it was just poor maintenance. The scales look fine under magnification, no smell etc. but I've been caught out that way before so I'm always wary.
I'll have this razor a few more days yet so should be able to see any further deterioration, if it happens.
Nothing so far. I think it'll be all good.
Thanx again :tu
FWIW I don't think the side effects of cell rot show up on a blade after a few days but more like a few weeks/months. I'm not (nor anyone else on this subject I'm sure) 100% sure though.
I'm sure of one thing. Cell rot seems to have very few rules governing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelph
The Beau Brummel I did recently started to tarnish at the original rust sites within days of the resto & that was thru a coat of oil. :shrug:
It remains nice & shiny since I changed the scales.
Celluloid was originally manufactured from collodion. Collodion is a substance which early photographers flowed onto a glass plate or piece of japanned tin as in the wetplate collodion process (I still take pictures using this process and manufacture collodion). To make the collodion suitable for use as a plastic material (as in Hyatt's first use of it in making billiard balls in 1868) it was added to camphor.
Collodion is an inherently unstable substance. It is made by treating pure cotton with a mixture of nitric and sulphuric acid - the end result is guncotton or nitrocellulose, the cellulose coming from the cotton. This is then dissolved in ether and alcohol to make a thick liquid. For plastics, powdered ivory, asbestos, bone and other filler material was added.
The very early celluloids could spontaneously ignite. Poorly washed/prepared celluloid released nitric acid vapour causing rust and the breakdown of other plastics. Others, to which acetone were added (1940s) would breakdown releasing acetic acid (vinegar) hence the "vinegar syndrome" in the breakdown of old celluloid film and movie stock.
The breakdown of these materials seems to depend on how they were kept and how much filler they had in them. Confined spaces, heat and darkness accelerate the decomposition of cellulose-acetate, while heat and exposure to sunlight tend to accelerate the decomposition of cellulose-nitrate.
In both cases, the filler material plays a large part. The more filler and the darker it is, the slower the rate of decomposition. Maybe this is because UV rays are prevented from penetrating far into the material, or becuase the higher percentage of filler means a smaller proportion of cellulose.
The process is irreversible, and once it starts in one object of a collection it will act like a catalyst and rapidly spread to the others.
There is still a danger of the earlier types catching fire, perhaps during buffing or mechanical sanding when a lot of heat is generated.
Asbestos as a filler is a bit of a worry too!
Regards,
Neil.
Great post, great overview of early celluloid.
Have some rep
Charlie
Wow Neil that was interesting TY
Interesting Neil. With those kind of manufacturing materials, planned obsolescence seems factored in.