I swear I've searched but can't find out why a wedge shaped spacer. Is a wedge necessary?
I plan on rescaling my DA and would like to know the "why" of things before attempting them.
Thanks!
Kevin
Printable View
I swear I've searched but can't find out why a wedge shaped spacer. Is a wedge necessary?
I plan on rescaling my DA and would like to know the "why" of things before attempting them.
Thanks!
Kevin
Short answer:
It allows there to be a < 1/8" space at the toe of the scales and a 1/4" space at the pivot without bowing the scales and causing undue stresses.
I think that a flat spacer warps a lot of scales and causes stress in the center portion. Hard to explain why, but if the pivot end of the scales needs to be forced out to pin together, then the center portion of the scales get forced inward. It also solves a lot of problems with blades not closing centered, etc. Besides all that, it looks better and is harder to do well. :roflmao
But why can't you just make the spacer the same thickness as the spine of the razor, so that the scales are the same distance apart at both pins?
If I understand your question, take note that tangs are tapered in width being narrower toward the tail than toward the spine, so as it rotates it will bend any scales that are not bowed to allow for the razor to swivel openQuote:
Originally Posted by MaillerPhong
Gotcha. So, ideally would the scales be flat when the blade's fully extended, and bowed when the blade's fully closed? In other words, make the wedge match the taper of the tang.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoglahoo
Not exactly, but almost. The scales will ideally be as close to flat as possible when the razor is closed since this is the "default" position. When open, the scales can be allowed to flex a little. There are obvious exceptions to what I say, but in general it is best to reduce the stresses on the scales as much as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaillerPhong
When I first started making scales I was using non-wedge type spacers and honestly never had a problem. These days I find the wedges make for a nicer look, so I use them.
Some scales are purposely bowed when closed to accomodate the tang section between the pin and the blade. This section is normally tapered to fit inside the scales without too much rubbing, but there are some razors (the larger henckels come to mind) that require either:
1. A section of the scales carved out to accept the fat tang
2. Bowed Scales
3. A wider and less "wedgey" spacer
or any combination of the above.
The ideal shape is compound/thicker toward the pin,and thicker toward the inside.Best regards Gary
Interestingly, I found that with plastic and wood, even the hard woods, the wedge spacer does as everyone describes. But with carbon fibre scales, the carbon fibre has very little flex and so an even spacer had to be used to stop exerting too much pressure on the tang end holding pins.
I disagree here. True that different materials have a different amount of flex, but I have worked with a lot of CF and it is a matter of countouring the scales and using a wedge that won't give more than the scales. I think in all cases a wedge shaped spacer can be used for a better outcome, you just need to approach it differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by English
In the most cases it is in my opinion not necessary to work with a wedge buttspacer. Because I have some problems to explain this right I have made the follow draft:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/994...e002wi2.th.jpg
Number 1 is, what are all speaking about. You have an wider pivot than the spacer. Here you will have stress to the end of the scales. How much depends, how great is the difference between the pivot an the wedge thicknes. A 8/8 Friodur hast 6 mm at the Pivot and because of the full hollow ground blade a 2 mm spacer could be enough. This is to much difference. If you use a 4 mm spacer and a third pin, that impeded that the blade go threw the scales, there is no problem.
Number 2 Here we can see the right use of a flat spacer. The difference between pivot and spacer thickness is similar. There you dont have stresslines in the wood. 1 - 2 mm difference are not a problem, because wood is an elastic material and the length of the scales are 6 inch. Also if you got some little stress, because of the tappered pivot, if you open or close the razor, this will not be importand. The most time the razor is closed. The rest time of 5% (stroping, honing etc.), when the razor is open, the wood handle can easily manage this little presure.
Number 3 Often seen. The wedge is to great and the scales open to much at the pivot. When you now close them to pin the blade you will get often cracks between the scales and the wedge. It is nearly impossilbe to pin the wedge hard enought to avoid this, because of the great lever when you close the scales.
Number 4 Same problem like Nr. 3. Now you have permanent stress of the scales at the sides. With plastic as an homogen artifice material is this not a big thing. But wood work with the time and is not so homogen at al the parts. I seen some razors, where one side of the scales warped and the other stayed straight because of that. The effect of this is, that the razor no close centered.
If you want to use an wedge spacer, do it right. To avoid stress to the scales it is absolutely necessary to assemble the angle of the wedge very good to the used blade. If you do this only with your feeling and aesthetic aspects, you will often get more problems, than with a flat spacer. In the most cases a flat spacer will do the job as well, but it is much easier to handle.
My2cent :)
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?im...izze002wi2.jpg
Here are somethings I have found to be pretty true.. (I am sure there are exceptions)
I have never taken a vintage razor apart that did not have a wedge...
I have found, that they kinda knew what they were doing back then...
The slightly bowed scales have more strength....
A general rule of thumb to make a wedge, start with a piece of material that is half the thickness of the tang, then create the wedge shape and adjust to fit....
Now because of the changes in new materials vs old, I do not think a wedge is absolutely necessary on many razors, but me I am kinda old fashioned, and if a design has worked for 200 + years, and on many razors, it is still working, why argue with success.....
Of course the above is just my opinion....
Nice point.. I have actually been wrestling with the wedge/flat spacer idea recently... but this makes sense to me. Why mess with perfection?:bowQuote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Thanks for all of the info. Here is a picture of why I was thinking to rescale, they are uneven. It works just fine, it just bugs me. I also think the blade might be bent, but I'll start another post for that.
I think Buddel said it when he said "if you want to use a wedge spacer, do it right." That's pretty much the point. To avoid certain stresses in the scales and to acheive a flush fit, a lot of time and consideration has to be taken. Personally I do it by feel and have few problems but have practiced a lot. I don't think the flat spacer does as good of a job as a well done tapered spacer though and it is much less aesthetically pleasing. The bottom line is that there is an easy road and a hard one. The hard one, if done well, yields a greater accomplishment.
One thing I am not getting!
What the heck is scale stress?
I just cant see a problem, unless you make something extremely wrong looking.
It's what happens when you don't rest your razor enough :DQuote:
Originally Posted by kevint
(I couldn't resist! sorry sorry!)
you're funnier than that Lee
A 3 pin is purposely stressed for instance.
Great thread. Mr. Buddel props for your designs. Inspirational really:o