How did they rip scale stock before bandsaws existed?

I've been trying to figure out a way to rip 1/8" thick strips of wood without using a bandsaw (because I don't want to buy a huge, heavy piece of gear that I have only VERY occasional use for). How did they rip scale stock before bandsaws existed? Sawing straight by hand is impossible (for me, anyway). Hand chisels don't do an even enough job (maybe b/c I'm not that good with them). So how did they do it in the 1800s? Miter box? Rough saw by hand & plane it down? That seems wasteful. Anyone have any idea?

Edit: whatever method I come up with, I'd like it to be usable on pieces of tree branches, not just on large pieces of lumber that are already square.

Use a jig.

Ripping 1/8 in sections from a rough branch would be very challenging. Learning to flatten on side then prepare the other five sides of a piece of stock is the first things you learn when you learn wood working.

If you can get one side flat and the opposing side close to parallel you can then use a squared piece of wood as a guide to hold the saw against to make a square straight cut.

Most western style rip saws are not suited to these types of cuts I would get a combination Japanese style saw with crosscut on one side and rip teeth on the other. I would also use a plane to flatten the sides after rough sawing to shape.

Charlie

Another thing that comes in very handy is a marking gauge.(specifically a cutting gauge) Scribing a parallel line all around is a necessity imho.


when you saw don't just start at one end, and cut all the way.
Cut only part way, flip the piece and start again, until you have cut through the center of the scribe line all around.

or you may need to stand on it:D

A cutting gauge and a couple other things Johnny.

You don't want to get too small a saw.

Really you don't need much to hold on to, jigs or vise, but they can sometimes help immensely

A larger saw is intimidating for a newbie to start, but after a little practice it goes much better.

Here's are a couple 270mm

I know this isn't going to be very helpful, but I would reckon in the old days, they probably still used a band saw, or table saw. The difference being that they would of been powered by a water wheel, or steam, instead of electricity. There were power tools long before electricity was even thought of.

As for cutting straight without power tools. I dunno. Isuppose some sort of jig would probably be the best way, but I'm no woodworker.

Connor

OK, thanks for the advice. If I get serious about doing this, I'll have to get me one of them Japanese saws. I've already verified that the saws I have won't do the job.

Alternatively a western tool oft used for ripping thin stock
the bow saw http://www.geocities.com/plybench/bowsaw.html:shrug: something like that.

even better like 17th c veneer makers the framesaw
Resawing Section


a back saw too

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Originally Posted by kevint

Alternatively a western tool oft used for ripping thin stock
the bow saw http://www.geocities.com/plybench/bowsaw.html:shrug: something like that.

even better like 17th c veneer makers the framesaw
Resawing Section


a back saw too

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Kevin,

You are exactly right, great choice's. I guess I think 5 1/2 tpi Disston when I think western rip saw, or maybe a small back/dovetail saw with rip teeth.

good thinking!


Charlie

Thanks Charlie. I trust you will find that to be always true;)

my 270mm kataba (single edge saw) has 8 ppi at the heel and 5 ppi at the toe. (they get progressively larger) so it is no baby. The softwood ryoba has the same # of teeth just a little different shape.

We have a member here who makes his own saws! Hey where you at?

I just use the tree felling saw with the big teeth.

Or you could ask me real nice, pay the postage and send me your wood (assuming you are not overseas but you did not fill in you location). I dont want to make a habit of resawing wood for folks but I can feed it to my band saw and run it through my surfacing drum sander. I can go anywhere from 1/64 thick to 6 inches.

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Originally Posted by cannonfodder

Or you could ask me real nice, pay the postage and send me your wood (assuming you are not overseas but you did not fill in you location). I dont want to make a habit of resawing wood for folks but I can feed it to my band saw and run it through my surfacing drum sander. I can go anywhere from 1/64 thick to 6 inches.

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That is a very nice offer.

/hey, someone from dayton. Are you who raids all the antique shops?

In answer to your original question, although the band saw was invented in 1807 (after welding techniques developed enough to close a flat saw into a loop)thin slats were most quickly split with a tool called a froe:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DX%26um%3D1
The thickness dialed in and the surface was smoothed with a handplane. Master cabinet makers still prefer a planed surface over a sanded one. Of course there have been saws for many centuries but it has always been most expedient in woodworking to use the wood's natural qualities to work for you. Even huge trees were split by a few guys with wedges and mauls.

Brad

Splitting with a froe works great if the wood is very straight grained and if it is of a type that splits. Some species do not split in a useable way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cannonfodder

Or you could ask me real nice, pay the postage and send me your wood (assuming you are not overseas but you did not fill in you location). I dont want to make a habit of resawing wood for folks but I can feed it to my band saw and run it through my surfacing drum sander. I can go anywhere from 1/64 thick to 6 inches.

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Thanks for the generous offer, but right now I don't have any stock to cut, or any razors to restore. I was asking more from the standpoint of acquiring the skill.

This one was first rived with a froe.

If you consider the difficulty of making a saw from scratch( sand, peat, etc) you will be closer to understanding the magic of a truly great saw.

Johnny, with a good saw you can hardly keep from cutting straight, but you can buy a bandsaw at that price:gaah:

My experience with splitting mauls leads me to doubt that you can split wood at 1/8". I assume if you use a froe, the wood has to be split at 1/4" and planed down? Is that correct?

Re. saws, Japanese saws sell for about $30. They're small, light, & definitely cheaper than a bandsaw. Maybe worth a try?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Johnny J

My experience with splitting mauls leads me to doubt that you can split wood at 1/8". I assume if you use a froe, the wood has to be split at 1/4" and planed down? Is that correct?

Re. saws, Japanese saws sell for about $30. They're small, light, & definitely cheaper than a bandsaw. Maybe worth a try?

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I have seen demonstrations by woodworkers who specialize in Shaker style crafting and they could split the side pieces for those oval boxes the Shakers used to make. The pieces could be split below 1/8". As Matt321 pointed out, the straighter the grain, the thinner one could split the wood. For the Shakers, they had alot of old growth North American hardwood trees from which to choose and alot of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Johnny J

My experience with splitting mauls leads me to doubt that you can split wood at 1/8". I assume if you use a froe, the wood has to be split at 1/4" and planed down? Is that correct?

Re. saws, Japanese saws sell for about $30. They're small, light, & definitely cheaper than a bandsaw. Maybe worth a try?

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Usually by the time you get that thin you use something sharper than a froe, though i guess you could have a specialized froe. Regardless I doubt that razor scales were ever split out on a large scale

Froe, and splitting goes more with axe and adz finish rather than plane; however it is true that one could at times use split out(rived) boards to be finish planed but more often larger pieces were split, then trued to be resawn as in the woodprint above.

OT talk done:)

One brand (though I have never owned one)that is most often cited as one of the best(maybe the best) machine made saw is Gyokucho
:gl:JohnnyJ

OK, just for grins I bought a Japanese style saw to try. Awesome! I cut a piece of crab apple branch & it was like cutting a piece of cheese! If you get a big saw, it WANTS to cut in a plane. This is my first attempt, never having even held a Japanese saw before. I smoothed it out a bit using a Stanley pocket plane (which others have accurately derided as the Bic lighter of planes, but it's good enough). The slabs need to be thinned more & smoothed, but hey, I'm a satisfied customer.

Bugger, I'm going to have to get me a japanese saw now......much cheaper than a bandsaw.

yeah,

they dont have to be cheaper.

what cha makin' Johnny

I'm going to make some scales. I have a little razor that's too small for me. I'll rehandle it & probably sell. Until now I've been dependent on serendipity for my scale stock (e.g. an ex-co-worker of mine who was a woodworker would give me the thin strips he used to rip off to square up his stock). Now I can just go out into the woods, find a stick I like & slice it.

Of course I could just buy thin-sliced lumber from exoticwoods.com but I get a kick out of being able to do a lot with a little, and to be able to do it myself. Maybe I'll even give away some of my excess lumber right here on the forum.