When is hone wear bad?

One of the razors I was recently given very clearly saw years of heavy use by the former user--the spine shows very wide, flat wear (I think you can see it in the picture below). The razor is a near-wedge, and I'm wondering if this hone wear would be detrimental to the razor's performance.

I assume that excessive hone wear would make honing an issue due to the change of the angle, but is it a serious problem? If so, is there anything to be done to counter it? Taping, perhaps?

The wear is even across the length of the razor, though it doesn't look it in the picture.

Thanks for any advice!

http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...ction-towa.jpg

IMHO hone wear can be considered "excessive" when:

1. The bevel and/or spine start to invade the etching, engraving or stamp on the belly of the blade
2. The spine wear causes there to be a sharp edge on the ridge of the spine like a skate blade. This can be dangerous. I've actually sliced one of my nice bathroom towels with a razor like this.
3. The wear is consistently uneven (as OS already mentioned)
4. The angle of the bevel is so steep that the quality of the shave suffers. This usually happens when the spine is taped and you try to take a 1/4" chip out of a 4/8 blade. :p

I've honed wedges where the spine wear and bevel meet in a number of spots. They still shave well. On such blades it becomes important to hone evenly and think of it more as polishing (as in nihon to) than honing.

I don't think it is a problem. I have actually been giving this some thought lately. I tape my spines when I hone them to keep them looking new. That works good if you only hone it a few times. If you have one or two razors and they see a stone every month, after a year of touch up hones, you have significantly changed the geometry of the blade.


The spines were designed to wear. So as you hone the blade, the bevel angle stays constant. To much honing with a taped spine will give you the geometry of a hatchet instead of a long and lean super sharp edge. With a hollow ground, you will eventually ware into the hollow grind swell and beyond making the blade a quarter hollow. Once it hits the hollow grind swell, its life is coming to an end.


I have been thinking of keeping the spines taped for the first few honing's then removing the tape and re-cutting the bevel with the spine exposed to bring the geometry back into proportion. I am lucky enough to have more then two dozen blades in my rotation so they only get a touch up two or three times a year so it would be a couple years of use before I honed down the bevel.


Any thoughts from the razor masters on my idea?


But to your point, an evenly worn spine (even is the key) is little more than an indicator of a well used and cared for blade. A lopsided worn spine is a sign that the blade was not cared for very well and the previous owner did not know how to use the tool.

Thanks guys. So it sounds like I'm not actually in that bad a spot here. The hone wear is extensive but not A)sharp, B) anywhere NEAR the bevel or C) uneven. (Even if it were, I would NEVER bin it...Something could be done, I'm sure!)

I'll give it a few rounds on the hone--it shouldn't need a lot, it pops hairs like crazy and under magnification looks smooth as glass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimR

Thanks guys. So it sounds like I'm not actually in that bad a spot here. The hone wear is extensive but not A)sharp, B) anywhere NEAR the bevel or C) uneven. (Even if it were, I would NEVER bin it...Something could be done, I'm sure!)

I'll give it a few rounds on the hone--it shouldn't need a lot, it pops hairs like crazy and under magnification looks smooth as glass.

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Most likely it is an indication of a razor that was a smooth shaver, and thus much used. Apart from cosmetics, even hone wear is not really an issue, especially on wedgey blades such as yours.

Most all of the wedge type razors I have show a heavier hone strip at the spine and a wider bevel than my hollow ground blades do. Hone wear will show heavier on the wedge types faster than the hollows due to the geometry of the blade grind. This is typical and does not signal a lot of honing. A lot of us tape the spine on wedge type razors to reduce the metal removal and speed up the honing process. It also keeps the hone wear at the spine to a minimal. I believe there was a post a while ago on this topic investigating weather there was a method of honing the wedges types that differed from our current method. Some of us have purchased a vintage wedge with minimal hone wear at the spine. When we hone it up the hone wear becomes significant almost instantly, which is what inspired the thread. I don't believe this question was resolved. Sorry, I don't have the time to search for the thread right now. I believe Glen had numerous posts to the thread and maybe created it. Maybe he will read this post and locate the thread for you.

Keep the blade and enjoy your shaves with it!

Gents, I am very reassured. Especially since this is the only Japanese wedge I've got...It'd be a shame if it didn't shave.

Now, to fix that scale break...:hmmm:

Hone wear is bad when it is on the razor and not the hone....:)
That is actually only half joking....

I have been doing a little research on the subject, and of of course a little help from the amazing Lee !!!/ Hoglahoo the search engine master.. There is actually quite a bit of info to support that notion of "honing supports"
Lee actually found an old patent for collapsible ones built into the spine of the razor...
Certain older wedges have an even sharp bevel that obviously was created by the spine not touching the hone, Basically a fake frame back that slipped on the spine when the razor was honed.... I have still not found absolute proof but I have hopes....

As to taping the spine creating bad geometry,(in any ones lifetime) I think you guys are buying into a wee bit of hooey there... Mr Parker has done even more research than I have on bevel angle and I have seen numbers from 8 degrees to 22 degrees... I really, really, truly, do not believe that the vintage makers ever even measured the spine to bevel angle, let alone did the math that you guys are attributing to these precise measurments... I think somebody said "Hey, this razor looks good, and has pretty good balance lets make more like this" I think we are the ones taking this to a whole new level here, to us it is a passion, to the old school shaver it was, "shaving" the easier the better....I mean seriously have you guys seen some of the blades out there that people were shaving with?????? JMHO here of course....

Basically it comes down to: is this what you do in the morning??? or is this a hobby /passion???

Glen said it!

For me, it's bad when I can't make it shave well anymore. But that's never happened with any of my razors due to excessive hone wear on the spine (as far as I know)

Otherwise to me, it is just a cosmetic issue

Man Glen, I can't thank you enough for that post. You said a lot of things that deserved saying.

On that note, Cannon- I don't think that even if you used the same two razors for years and taped the spines that they would get to the point that you couldn't use them due to the geometry. That is a general statement obviously. If you were using a 2/8, who knows... Keep taping the spines if you don't like ugly hone wear. Besides, you use a dozen razors, it won't be an issue for you.

Jim, if you want a regrind, PM me for a price, but on your blade it isn't 'necessary'.

When I saw the title of this thread I thought of Supreme Court Justice Powell being asked how to identify pornography.... he said,"I know it when I see it." :) If I recall that thread on wedges Joed mentioned I believe someone was thinking that in the old days the honemiesters may have lifted the spine off of the hone when sharpening the meat choppers. Sort of like sharpening a knife but with a shallower angle. There was also the theory of Glen's that there may have been a removable guard to protect the spine in those days before electrical tape. I swore by the tape when I began and I am glad that I did. At that time I probably did many more laps on a blade then necessary due to inexperience. Now I believe I am far enough along to hone without tape without fear of causing excessive and/or incorrect hone wear and I am considering it.

I was wondering this too, I have three blades that have hone wear, nice even wear, that I was wondering if they were worth putting scales on. this answers my question. thanks guys.

Red

Well gents, I tried her out but she pulled a wee bit, so at Jimmy's advice I gave this one a ride on the conservative pyramid, and HO-LEEEE MOL-EEEE, this is a smooth shaver! Wow...Good steel, good maintenance and a good bevel make for some great shaves, I reckon. Glad I gave it a chance!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimR

Well gents, I tried her out but she pulled a wee bit, so at Jimmy's advice I gave this one a ride on the conservative pyramid, and HO-LEEEE MOL-EEEE, this is a smooth shaver! Wow...Good steel, good maintenance and a good bevel make for some great shaves, I reckon. Glad I gave it a chance!

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Probably why the spine is worn. Whoever had it used it because it was a good one.

Aman I find that hone ware is often a sign of a great shaving razor. If a razor didn't shave well it probably never got used enough to get any ware. I will take a razor with good even hone ware over one that just has a little any day. As far as looks go I am a shaver not a collector if it shaves well then it aient ugly to me.