Ok, so I know I can find the Brass rods. But where do you guys get the NiAg rods from? Would craft stores have them as well?
Thanks in advance!
-Rob
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Ok, so I know I can find the Brass rods. But where do you guys get the NiAg rods from? Would craft stores have them as well?
Thanks in advance!
-Rob
I know Sapito### (the # are some #'s that I can't remember) sells them on the bay. I want to say it is about $4 for a full set, shipped. That includes pins and washers if I'm not mistaken.
Thanks DP, I just want the rods tho. Would rather do the pins myself :)
Texas Knife supply
or
http://www.heimerdingercutlery.com/?Category=475
Google them
Thanks Glen! I would still like to find someplace local tho. hate to spend $3 and then $7 on shipping :p
I searched, searched, and searched for a local place. Probably spent as much on gas as shipping was.
I ordered 12 feet of rod from Texas knife and stopped worrying about it.
I live in a college town, so we have an art store for all the architecture majors. They sell brass rod in 1 and 3 foot lengths, but I haven't found local nickel rod.
A huge +1 to this. Some of us may be lucky enough to source a local supply at a well stocked hobby shop, but I spent 3-4 months looking before I realized how much time and gas I was wasting. I ordered enough online to last me a few years, and that's that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undream
Roger that. I wasn't gonna drive around to check, but yeah, I guess I'll just order a few rods to last a long time :p
Thanks all!
I ended up doing the same thing, and buying a bunch online and just sucking up the shipping, lol.
I have actually thought of trying something for getting them locally... There is a steel company not too far from my city called "Modesto Steel". I would bet my razor they would either stock it, or be able to get it for me... Maybe I'll give 'em a call today and find out...
I looked up the links in this thread for rods for pinning scales. But they didn't list the washers. Where do you buy the washers from?
I do like Brad and order enough rods to build a small fence.
My local Hobby Town used to have a nice inventory off all rod sizes and materials. Ever since the economy started slacking they haven't renewed any of their empty stock. Basically I was forced to order online.
Texas knife is where I get the silver nickel rods but stay away from the brass. The brass I received was of very bad quality. The NS was very good.
Great.... I've got 5' of brass rod from them, for my first pinning attempt. How can you tell good quality from bad? Is it so bad I should ditch it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian
Thanks,
Micro Fasteners - Hobbyists Source - Locknuts - Washers - Machine Screws - Fasteners - Rivets - Wood ScrewsQuote:
Originally Posted by ndw76
You can use the stainless steel ones, apparently they look the same as nickel silver.
I think cheaper source of brass rod could be this :
http://www.mcmaster.com/#8859k511/=40kqh0
7.44 per pack of 15 12'' rods.
Not sure on quality, but McMaster has no question return policy.
well, it can depend from batch to batch I guess but the ones I received were extremely hard and I could snap them in small pieces just like when I break a piece of chocolate bar. Good quality brass should be soft but not rock hard. If you can snap a piece of the brass rod with your hands and fingers it's not good. If the brass rod bends or at least doesn't snap like a chocolate bar you're fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by keenedge
I buy my supplies online, because it is impossible trying to find hardware supplies in empirical unit sizes locally.
So whenever I have to buy something online in the US, I make sure that I order enough to last me a long time.
And while it is indeed a bit silly to pay as much in shipping as in raw material, in absolute values, 7 or 10 $ is still pretty cheap, and less than you'd pay for gas.
Max,
Perhaps your brass rod was hardened. You can anneal it by heating it to a dull red and quenching it in water. (Sort of the opposite of what you'd do with steel.)
Thx ChrisQuote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMeyer
for some reason I had the same thought. I'm going to give it a try and let you know the outcome.
I had the same issue on some brass rod. It was real hard. So I called my brother in law who does a lot of work with metal and he said to heat it to red and then quench. Brass annealing is different than with steel. He also said that by peening the brass, it will make it hard. Max please let us know how this comes out for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMeyer
How great your info is!But Can you give some more sample questions and answers.I really want to get more info about this topicIt really useful for me. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian
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Well, I tried the Brass tips but to no avail. Didn't do diddly squat.
Only completely discolored the brass.
On a side note I got some brass from another vendor and those are just perfect. Firm but soft and nicely start to mushroom when you peen. The others would just bend and barely mushroom.
When I was in high schoo we did an experiment in science class where we heated two sewing needles to red hot in a flame. One needle was quenched in a glass of water and the other was slowly removed from the flame and allowed to cool slowly. The needle that was quenched was very hard. If bent it snapped. But the needle that cooled slowly bended easily. It was very soft.
If you are going to heat up your brass I would suggest allowing it to cool very slowly. Maybe even to the extent of heating up a bundle of rods at the same time and then allowing them to cool.
I can't imagine why a sewing needle and a brass rod would perform differently under similar conditions.
Nathan, I believe that your suggestion would, in fact, harden brass. I don't know why, but brass is annealed by heating it to a dull red and then quenching it in water. It seem to recall reading that copper is annealed similarly to brass. Also, as mentioned, brass can also be work harden.
Max, I wonder what's up with the bad brass you got. If you're on the blade forums too, you could ask Mete (Robert Cella). I bet that he would know. It was from him that I learned about annealing brass.
I have Tim McCreight's The Complete Metalsmith around somewhere. I'll try to find it to see if it has more answers.
That's interesting that brass would react differently to other metals. It goes to show that a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous. If what you are saying is true I would have had someone harden a whole bundle of brass rods. Oops.
Well, I dug out my copy of The Complete Metalsmith. The author, Tim McCreight, mentions annealing brass, but doesn't go into great detail. He says to heat brass to a bright red, then air cool. Max, since you already have the brass, it might be worth a shot.
McCreight lists how to anneal some other metals. Notably, he says to heat copper to a dull red and then quench as soon as the redness disappears. In another part of the book he mentions that copper can't be hardened by heat, but it can be work hardened. I guess that's when you might need to anneal it (unless you were making a blade).
Chris it would be nice to see in print about the brass. You have it for copper and the other metals. Can you do that??
Edit: Chris the reason I am asking is from looking at way to many google search results they mostly say to quench. Now it is my understanding that for non-ferrous metals like copper which brass is a member of, you heat then quench. And Ferrous metals you don't quench. I would just like to get this issue solved and not hijack the OP thread.
The part about annealing brass is actually at the lower right hand corner of the page. The book has really cheesy graphics, so some parts aren't placed logically on the pages. I believe that he wrote it before the advent of the computer. I'll post the relevant part below.
I found an interesting post about brass annealing when I googled it:
That is about the easiest way I can imagine of annealingQuote:
I'd find out what the annealing temperature and time of yellow brass is then use the oven. Throw them in there on a baking sheet or something, turn the oven on to the required temp, leave it on for the required time, then turn it off and let the shells cool in the oven.
That's how you anneal steel. I've also annealed copper the same way and used the same process to re-heat treat aluminum after welding and machining.
I'd imagine that brass anneals somewhere in the 200º-250ºF range. That's where it happens for copper. As long as you take it to it's lowest critical temperature and hold it there for a little while, then let it cool slowly, you're annealing.
I do not believe it is logical to assume that various metals can all be heat treated the same just because we use them for similar purposes (in this case pins). You can try heat treating them any way you wish, but jewelers and other metal workers have been working with these materials for ages and have already figured it out. There's really no need to guess.
I searched Bladeforums and came up with the posts below. In the posts, Stacy Alpert and Mete (Robert Cella) were responding to a question about working with brass. Stacy is a professional Bladesmith and Jeweler. I have met him, and he is very knowledgeable. Mete is a retired metallurgist. I believe he worked for Timken. I put the relevant parts in bold red.
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GrayWall04
working with brass03-25-2007 06:49 AM
I bought some brass to make guards with but I didn't want to be just flat so I figured I'd heat them up and work them like steel. I found out that didn't work as the brass became brittle. So I figured I'd try and work it cold. Worked better but I still broke it. What is the best way to make brass guards like suck as the big "S" shaped ones for bowies and ones with finger groves? Thanks
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bladsmth
First off, all brass is not the same. Some is made to machine and others are made to be hard. Brass (and most all non-ferrous metals) are cold work materials. You heat brass to a dull red color (just barely red) and plunge it into water. Now you can work it cold. Re-anneal as it work hardens.If you hammer brass while it is hot, it will crumble.03-25-2007 08:01 AM
Stacy
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mete
The most ductile is cartridge brass ,70 Cu- 30 Zn . Annealing starts out at about 450 F. There is no need [but no danger] in quenching brass. Brass can contain from about 5 % Zn [guilding metal] to 40 % Zn [yellow brass].03-25-2007 09:35 AM
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I think that this thread has gotten hijacked. My apologies to the OP.
I am wondering if a Mod could put this in another thread about "Annealing brass rods" as the title. I feel that this is a very interesting topic and would like to come to some sort of consensus on the proper annealing of brass.
Thanks,
Bill Wilcox
If anyone is looking for nickel silver rod in Australia, WA in particular, I just bought some from Australasian Knife Collectors:
AKC's Australian Knifemaking Supplies
1.6mm (1/16 in) x 300mm (12 in) - $6.50 each
$5.00 postage in WA, $8.00 for rest of Australia.
Anyone know where to get/order the rod in Canada? I'm thinking it would be a bit expensive to ship accross the boarder.
No kidding. I tried a test order from Texas Knifemaker's Supply for one 12" rod and the shipping options ranged from $20 to $60! For a 12" x 1/16" rod!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cove5440