Problem with waterspots

Hello!

I need some advice or a diagnosis from experts on steel.

I have a Swedish steel razor which develops what I think to be waterspots (i.e., dark round spots ranging from dots to about 1mm in diameter) very quickly. In other words, if I am rinsing the blade with water while I am shaving, I will have waterspots by the end of the shave. I now wipe the lather off my razor on a dry towel while I am shaving and I immediately wash, thoroughly dry and then coat the razor with mineral oil when I am finished.

Before there is a chorus of "dry it more carefully," let me preempt that by saying that I am taking great pains to make sure that the razor is thoroughly dried. Yesterday evening, I polished the razor with Flitz to remove any waterspots, washed the razor and then thoroughly dried the razor with a towel and hair drier. I immediately dunked the metal portion of the razor into a bottle filled with mineral oil overnight. This morning, there were two grey waterspots about 1mm in diameter on the blade. :banghead:

The water in my location is very soft. I use Tabac and MWF and an alum block.

I am at a loss. Any ideas on how to prevent these waterspots or an explanation as to why they are developing? :confused:

For anyone thinking about posting, "dry the razor more thoroughly," thanks for the thought and consider the point taken. However, I would appreciate hearing from those who may have other ideas.

ZE

I feel your pain. This happens. I don't know why. I have lot's of razors, and only one does what your describing. I think that this condition is in the steel. I went to an expert restorer who told me, they're almost impossible to get rid of. I don't think it will harm your blade, it's only cosmetic. I'd like to see more opinions on this myself, cause I'm at a loss. I've tried buffing them out with a bench buffer/grinder, I've tried the Dremmel, MAAS, Mother's aluminum and mag polish, professional rouge's, etc...They always come back. I'm thinking I'd have to sand the blade down, and to tell you the truth, That's too much work and no guarantee. I'll just deal with it...

P.S. Mine is not Sweedish Steel, just plain old Carbon Steel....

I really appreciate your post zib! Hopefully, more people will also chime in on this issue like you said.

(I've used MAAS and Flitz. Actually, I prefer MAAS but that's for another post.)

Is there any chance that you are using "softened" water ?
I have a water softener which uses salt and the softened water
is not good for the body and it definitely kills house plants and shrubbery. It would follow that it is not good for steel either...

JMHO

Jerry:)

Let's see if I can remember from my metallurgy studies a few years back. I think that as Zib said it's actually an issue in the metal itself. If I remember correctly it has something to do with carbon deposits in the metal or something like that. But yeah, I'd bet on an actual issue in the metallurgy, not anything you're doing.

If you really want to stop the spots from forming, you might try (and I know this sounds wierd) blow-drying the blade on high-heat once you're done rinsing it. This will heat the blade at a safe level and hopefully remove any potential pockets of moisture within any carbon deposits that might be in the metal. Then apply the oil while the blade is still warm from the drying, which will draw the oil into any porus deposits.

Personally I'd just live with it. ;D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrsell63

Is there any chance that you are using "softened" water ?
I have a water softener which uses salt and the softened water
is not good for the body and it definitely kills house plants and shrubbery. It would follow that it is not good for steel either...

JMHO

Jerry:)

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Hi Jerry, thanks for your post. The water is not artificially softened in any way. It comes from rock aquifers in the mountains. The local residents are adamantly opposed to any kind of tampering of the water, including the addition of fluoride... ZE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aragornelessar86

Let's see if I can remember from my metallurgy studies a few years back. I think that as Zib said it's actually an issue in the metal itself. If I remember correctly it has something to do with carbon deposits in the metal or something like that. But yeah, I'd bet on an actual issue in the metallurgy, not anything you're doing.

If you really want to stop the spots from forming, you might try (and I know this sounds wierd) blow-drying the blade on high-heat once you're done rinsing it. This will heat the blade at a safe level and hopefully remove any potential pockets of moisture within any carbon deposits that might be in the metal. Then apply the oil while the blade is still warm from the drying, which will draw the oil into any porus deposits.

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Aragornelessar86 (cool name), Thanks for the post! Interesting. I'll try that.

ZE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZenEdge

Hi Jerry, thanks for your post. The water is not artificially softened in any way. It comes from rock aquifers in the mountains. The local residents are adamantly opposed to any kind of tampering of the water, including the addition of fluoride... ZE

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Well that does mean that there isn't anything extra added there, but since it's natural water it might contain trace minerals/salts that cause the spotting. Or it just might be the steel. You could try to eliminate the water by purchasing distilled/bottled water, heating it and shaving with that for a while and see if the spotting is as bad.

If it is, I saw a blade here that somebody rustblued for the same reason.

Interesting idea, the Rustblueing. That could be pretty damn cool.

Zen, it's a modification of a trick we use for powdercoating welded steel. The welding will introduce little gas pockets under the surface, and when you heat the part to bake the powder, the pockets burst and damage the finish. So we bake the parts first to burst all the pockets, then proceed as usual. The bit about applying the oil hot is from firearm conditioning.

Just figured that if there's actually something in the blade that's holding the moisture, the ideas should transfer. I recommended the hair dryer because it shouldn't get hot enough to damage the temper of the steel. Let me know how it works if you try it.

P.S.
Are the spots always in the same place? If it's something in the metal, they should be. If not, I'm going with Jerry's theory about minerals in the water.

Hey Zen,
If you figure it out, please post the results. I have a Dovo with the same issue. Within moments of being in the water, I start to get those waterspots. I try to dry and shave, dry and shave. All the things you have done. Ended up screwing up the gold etching on my blade from trying to get the waterspots to stay gone. It is so annoying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ursus

Well that does mean that there isn't anything extra added there, but since it's natural water it might contain trace minerals/salts that cause the spotting. Or it just might be the steel. You could try to eliminate the water by purchasing distilled/bottled water, heating it and shaving with that for a while and see if the spotting is as bad.

If it is, I saw a blade here that somebody rustblued for the same reason.

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I do have a couple of gallons of distilled water. I'll try almost anything at this point. Thanks!

Rust bluing is an interesting idea. I looked it up on wikipedia. This is probably too much of a tangent (and perhaps a silly question) but I wonder why they chose to do rust bluing instead of hot bluing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aragornelessar86

Interesting idea, the Rustblueing. That could be pretty damn cool.

Zen, it's a modification of a trick we use for powdercoating welded steel. The welding will introduce little gas pockets under the surface, and when you heat the part to bake the powder, the pockets burst and damage the finish. So we bake the parts first to burst all the pockets, then proceed as usual. The bit about applying the oil hot is from firearm conditioning.

Just figured that if there's actually something in the blade that's holding the moisture, the ideas should transfer. I recommended the hair dryer because it shouldn't get hot enough to damage the temper of the steel. Let me know how it works if you try it.

P.S.
Are the spots always in the same place? If it's something in the metal, they should be. If not, I'm going with Jerry's theory about minerals in the water.

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Aragorn, to answer your question, to be honest I can't tell whether the spots are in the same place over time. The blade is clean at the moment but I'll start taking pictures when the waterspots develop again for the purposes of comparison.

Just to limit the number of moving parts, I'll try the hair drier first for a while and then the distilled water if I don't see an improvement.

ZE

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZenEdge

I do have a couple of gallons of distilled water. I'll try almost anything at this point. Thanks!

Rust bluing is an interesting idea. I looked it up on wikipedia. This is probably too much of a tangent (and perhaps a silly question) but I wonder why they chose to do rust bluing instead of hot bluing.

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Can't remember. Maybe materials/facilities/fear of ruining the temper. Doing search on bluing this site will bring you few blued blades.

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Originally Posted by Shangers

Hey Zen,
If you figure it out, please post the results. I have a Dovo with the same issue. Within moments of being in the water, I start to get those waterspots. I try to dry and shave, dry and shave. All the things you have done. Ended up screwing up the gold etching on my blade from trying to get the waterspots to stay gone. It is so annoying.

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Nihao Shangers,

Will do! It is annoying. If it was a tarnish I wouldn't mind so much. For some reason spots just make me want to clean the blade.

Zen

ps - The irony is not lost on me (and I'm a little embarrassed) that my call sign is "ZenEdge" but my mind is getting stuck on things like waterspots...oh well, it is. I guess I'm not enlightened. :idea: