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Hey all,
just wanted your opinions on these I made. I used 1/2" copper pipe, ground the sides off, smashed the copper on anvil, superglued onto acrylic sheet, ground it all down to size, buffed the copper out and smoothed the inside acrylic sheet flat. Now, I need to know how to keep the copper from oxidizing (am thinking epoxy resin or varnish??) and could use some opinions/thoughts/sharing of expertize.
thanks for replies in advance!
i'd say let them oxidize
copper goes all sorts of amazing and fun colours, let it happen
you probably won't get infected or anything like that
AND! copper apparently works well as a mosquito repellent... not entirely relevant, but fun and factual
so, yes, in essence, let it go, it will make for ever changing and funk filled scales for ever
yep yep
also, as a drummer i keep my brass cymbals in shape, if you go to a music store or even most hardware stores or even supermarkets, you should be able to pick up a perfectly fine cymbal polish which you'd only have to apply every few months, or whenever you get tired of the funky colours
I like the idea of letting them oxodize, especially since you can always polish 'em up again later if you don't like it. However, if you decide that you've gotta keep 'em the way they are, I'll talk to my paint guy tomorrow and find out what we used on some brass decorative parts to protect them. Just remember that any kind of paint is likely to cloud just a bit.
Those scales are very cool, that is some pretty creative thinking you have going on.
Clear lacquer is what they spray on brass instruments to keep them shiny it would work for copper too. I like the idea of letting them oxidize.
Charlie
Thanks for the compliments!! Just screwin' around with different thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by spazola
I believe some museums use Renaissance Wax on their metal objects to stop them oxidizing.
Notes & Help Sheets | www.picreator.co.uk
"For the reliable protection of all metal surfaces, restorers confidently use our Renaissance micro-crystalline wax polish.
As an example, The National Trust in the UK once-annually waxes its brass and copper kitchen utensils in its historic houses and castles. Renaissance wax keeps it all in perfect, bright condition throughout the year, especially during the winter when most of the properties are closed to visitors and heating is at a low level or off."
Very cool. I have to agree with the others, let them oxidize. Can't wait to see a blade in them.
Oxidation would look cool; to keep them from oxidizing a thin coat of liquid cyanoacrylate or other acylic surface with adhesive properties would work well. You'll be limited somewhat by the surface adhesion of your sealer- the copper is too smooth for many finishes....
If you don't want to leave it to chance you could research appropriate patina mediums for achieving a specific color. Here ya go Patina Formulas for Brass, Bronze and Copper
Cool idea. They look awesome. Are they a lot heavier than regular scales?
G.
I love the rough pitted texture of those. Kind of makes me want to pound some out when I go home for Christmas. I would imagine they aren't any heavier than the steel scales on a Wapi, which I haven't had a problem shaving with even though I learned on a much lighter razor.
I'd love to try making a set of these. Copper pipe is one of the materials available to me here in Bangkok. Would you be able to post some pictures of the other side of the scales, or a side on photo so we can all get a better idea of what you have done? Is the copper material by itself too thin to use a scale material or did you add the acrylic to give it extra strength? And what does the acrylic look like in comparison to the copper?
Anyway, thanks for giving us all a new idea.
Nice scales, cool idea !!!!
Brilliant!
The use of copper is not only asthetically attractive, it is safe too. Copper has for centuries been used for its antimicrobial properties. Basically, it kills bugs. That is why wooden ships had the hulls (below the waterline) sheathed with it and why copper roofs will last hundreds of years. There is a large push on to put copper hand rails through hospitals because just handling the stuff santizes your paws.
Nice scales!
Good move with the acrylic backing; it should prevent galvanic corrosion due to the dissimilar metals (copper scales/steel blade).
Matt
That was my first thought when I saw this. To the person that asked about using just copper, I recommend the acrylic backing for this very reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by mbf4755
I would be concerned about electrolysis. Not the kind that women do on the upper lip but the kind that rots out metal of a different base. Quite frequently you can see these effects when copper and steel water pipes are connected. If you can electricaly isolate the steel blade from the copper scales you might have something.
By the way one of the traditional accepted methods of combining copper and steel water pipes is with a section of brass pipe. A brass pivot pin my or may not cause electrolytic rot.
All that being said, I would like to know how this turns out.
CraigJ, the acrylic should take care of that.
I have to agree! Love the texture. Reminds me of an Irish pub down home...the bar top was riveted sheets of brass. Added a little something to the atmosphere, and the hand hammering was evident.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPflaumer
And as for the Wapi's, I think I kinda like the heavier scales :) Certainly more than the lightweight ones that you hardly know are there.
That is awesome man! With regards to oxidizing. Would camellia do the trick? Also you can try Renaissance wax. They've many applications.
Restoration, Preservation, Conservation
one scale weighs as follows:Quote:
Originally Posted by baldy
Old celloid scale=.20 oz
plastic scale off of a cheap indian razor=.20 oz
Bone scale of equal dimensions as above =.30 oz
copper with 3 mm black acrylic=.65 oz
It may be double the weight but doesn't feel "heavy" in the hand.
I took 3 mm black acrylic and superglued it to the copper for added strength (thought about using just the copper but it seemed to bend too much). Also, the idea of unlike metals touching seemed like a case for corrosion so enter the acrylic sheet (found at Tap plastics here locally).Quote:
Originally Posted by ndw76
I thought by thining the copper I could lessen weight (which may have occured but unsure) and just happened to get a cool effect in the process that I liked:)
I love the way these look, especially with the pitting! I'm looking forward to seeing pics of the assembled razor. Well done, sir.
Very very nice! The acrylic liner, maybe a different metal in the pivot pin and washer, and it sounds like you won't see any electrical badness. Again, very nice!
I think the worries about electrolysis are largely unfounded. How many steel razors have had their brass pins eaten away by electrolysis? Even over the course of a couple hundred years, I've never seen it become a problem in vintage razors. That goes for the wedge end, also, which were often brass pins with lead wedges.
Now put those into an ionic solution of electrolytes and pass a mild current through them and you've got problems when the disparate metals act as electrodes. But that's not what we do with our razors.
You mean that's not how I'm supposed to store mine?Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBull
On a more serious note, I absolutely love your work. When I am done with college and have a job and money and such, I will have to order a custom beauty.
Galvanic corrosion can be a real problem. You can see it all the time in buildings: plumbing connections of different metals without dielectric fittings, or pipes running through steel stud walls.
For pins holding a blade, it is a very small surface area, so the corrosion would just be where they are actually in contact, After the surface corrosion forms, it protects against further corrosion, as the corrosion/rust is not very conductive. How often have you seen shiny brass pins in a shiny steel hole in a razor? They have a small protective layer of surface corrosion.
With copper scales, the whole length of the blade is susceptible. Granted, the entire length would not be in direct contact with the scales, but where they touch near the spine would very likely be pitted. And every time you would clean the blade, removing the corrosion, a clear path for ion transfer- and more corrosion- would reappear. The acrylic is a very good idea.
If anyone is interested, here is a good link regarding metal compatibility with regard to galvanic corrosion:
http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm
Sorry for the boring post.:soapbox:
Matt
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbf4755
Didn't mean to rain on anyone's parade or get anyone cussing on their soapbox. I'm just saying I've seen brass pins used in razors and knives for centuries. Brass washers have been used in razors for a couple hundred years at least. (they're the real contact point for the spine/scales, anyway). I've seen silver scales that didn't destroy the razor and I've seen old guns with gold inlays that seemed to survive the galvanic corrosion that should have caused. I wasn't challenging anyone's expertise or trying to prove anyone wrong. Just saying brass/copper have been used in cutlery applications for a long time without serious problems. Sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers or challenged anyone's authority. :(
Hey Robert-
The soapbox was meant to be sarcastic...and I have no authority here.:)
Like I said, a small coating of corrosion can stop the galvanic reaction, when things are dry and exposure to air is limited.
With pure copper scales, the removal of corrosion from the blade would allow the reaction to continue. Also, really drying the razor each time would have extra importance.
The brass pins would survive, of course. It is the steel, which is more anodic, which corrodes. Again, not a huge deal at the pin end, but worse at the blade. And brass reacts less with steel than does copper.
As an aside, I do have several old Sheffield blades where there is a steel collar between the brass pins and the steel blade. I assume the collar is to take whatever corrosion comes about, instead of the blade.
Keep your blade dry and keep cleaning it, be viligant, then copper scales may not be a problem. Or add an acrylic backing, and avoid the problem entirely.
The pipes in the wall analogy I gave has the worst of both worlds: water, lots of area exposed to air, and no one seeing it within a wall. Bad news.
Didn't mean to cause a fuss, either,
Matt
Awesome looking scales! I was about to comment on how the oxidization might adversely affect the blade, but I see in reading further you've addressed this already! Very cool.
The process of electrolysis is quite interesting. One metal becomes eaten away/disolved - the anode. Which metal dissolves depends on which end of the anodic/galvanic scale it is at. Graphite, platinum and gold are at the bottom - least galvanic/anodic, so have the lowest potential to dissolve, whereas magnesium, zinc and mild steel are the most galvanic and most likely to dissolve. Copper is somewhere just below centre. Nickel and silver are very low, not much above gold.
According to the galvanic table, low carbon steel is more galvanic than brass, so presumably the area around the pivot pin would act as the anode and be dissolved, which probably explains why we do not see many corroded away brass pins. However, for the process to proceed an electrolyte must be present - water with dissoved oxygen in it, in our case. As the razor only gets wet for a short time, the process is probably negligable anyway.
The practice of copper-sheathing the bottom of wooden ships, BTW, had nothing to do with killing or preserving things - it just made it impossible for the wood-boring bivalve the "teredo shipworm" to bore into the wooden planks - they could sink ships! It did have a little to do with electrolysis though - they used to nail the copper to the planks with steel nails and the presence of seawater+oxygen as an electrolyte made the nails act as sacrificial anodes and dissolve away - so all the copper fell off! Copper nails were the answer.
Regards,
Neil