Re-drilling the pivot hole in the tang

My brother was repairing part of his car's exhaust with a product called Quiksteel. You can check it out here. It is a self-reinforced epoxy putty that "bonds like epoxy, hardens like steel." The website says it is hard enough to use as a permanent repair to metal, and that it can be drilled and threaded.

I am going to use it to fill the large, uneven pivot hole in the tang of a very old blade so I can redrill the hole to 1/16". Is this the stuff that the wiki refers to? I think the wiki just says epoxy, and for some reason it didn't evoke thoughts of epoxy putty. Either way, maybe we could add a reference to Quiksteel Epoxy Putty just to make things easier for people like me who aren't too familiar with workshop products.

And no, I am not affiliated with Quiksteel in any way. :P

It might, or might not, work as they advertise. I'd recommend a test piece first before committing to a blade you don't want to have made a mess of.

What I would want to know is if the "new" epoxy material would allow for the pivot to work without further wear and tear. Then I guess the question is, does the pin turn within the tang hole or does the pin turn within the scale material? For most things, I'd want the pivot to turn metal on metal within the tang, and then of materials that do not wear to any great degree.

Another metal based epoxy that is worth looking into is JB Weld. J-B Weld Company - World's Finest Cold Weld - Don't Scrap It! J-B Weld It! Most hardware and automotive suppliers have this on hand. Here's another that looks interesting, I might have to give this one a try myself. body filler, epoxy putty, auto body filler, high temperature epoxy, aluminum epoxy, automotive body filler, epoxy high temperature, car body filler, putty epoxy I don't think that your pivot will fail because of heat generated friction though...LOL

Good luck.

Mike,

Do you have any guess about the tang hardness of a razor? This probably depends on the hardening and tempering process, but even if hard it may be possible to drill/ream the hole out with carbide tooling and bush the hole to re-drill to a smaller size.

I may try this as I have a nice razor with what behaves as if it has a bent pivot pin in a sloppy hole.

You can also pound in brass (i.e. some spare brass rod from peening) into the vintage big tang holes. It is maleable enough that it will be able to be squished into the nooks and crannies. And it is easy to drill afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

You can also pound in brass (i.e. some spare brass rod from peening) into the vintage big tang holes. It is maleable enough that it will be able to be squished into the nooks and crannies. And it is easy to drill afterwards.

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Sera,

That's much too easy. It involves no machine tools at the outset (and maybe even at the inset) and no great fussing about.

Better one does.... :overkill:

cheers, :beer2:

For all of my restorations I use JB Weld, which is an automotive steel epoxy. It works exquisitely. I highly recommend it.

I like Seraphims idea. It is an old watchmakers trick. When a cog has a broken tooth you would take a jewelers saw and saw the tooth out and a little notch. Then place a piece of brass in the notch and hammer it until it fit the notch and file on another tooth. It works surprisingly well.
Kind of like in wood working, when you have a screw hole that is torn out. Drill it a little larger and glue in a tight fitting dowl. Cut it off and re drill the hole.
Problem is, the tang of the razors I have worked on were hard as flint. It is rough on the needle file to make the hole larger and takes a lot of time. You sure can't drill the hole out larger.

To be completely honest here, re-drilling the tang is almost always unnecessary. I've NEVER seen a case where it was needed. This has been argued here many times before. The problems people have when they want to re-drill the pivot arise from other things on/with the razor, not the pivot hole being skewed. If you epoxy the hole and then re-drill the hole to about 1/16" you'll be in WORSE shape if the tang is ground unevenly or you drill the hole crooked.

Well then, don't drill the hole crooked. :nj

:beer2:

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Originally Posted by Bruce

Sera,

That's much too easy. It involves no machine tools at the outset (and maybe even at the inset) and no great fussing about.

Better one does.... :overkill:

cheers, :beer2:

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No power tools...... but banging on something with a hammer always feels good!

Seraphim's idea of using the brass insert is a good one though. The point I would take home is that there are many ways to relieve this kitty of their coat.

Bruce, when I have been allowed to leave Rockwell dents in someone else's razors, I've found that hardness can vary widely.

You know, JB Weld might work...I dropped an airbrush a number of years ago and snapped off the bottom tube feed that was brazed on. I scuffed the parts up and added a dose of JB Weld and it's still together to this day...and that was fifteen years ago and bonded to chrome. Makes me wonder if you didn't fill that hole up and then sand it flat, then drill it. :shrug:

Just about all the razors I have bought of Ebay have required some repair to the pivot pin. I use Selleys, Steel Knead It. It is an epoxy that can be hand kneaded and sets in around 10 minutes. It gives great results (I can't say for how long though). I ALWAYS inlarge the pivot pin hole in the tang, this has required using diamond tiped reamers on a Dremal, or if I'm lucky a 3/32" drill. I then fill the enlarged hole with the epoxy and then drill with a 3/32" drill so I can insert a piece of 3/32" brass tube. Sounds tight I know but I also haven't come across a pin hole yet that was straight, and therefore a straight pivot pin either! Once the 3/32" tube is inserted and left very slightly raised either side of the tang, I can then place a 3/32" brass (bearing) washer over the insert, and then 1/16" pin straight through the sucker! Fits as snug as!! I wouldn't dream of trying this without a drill press, and I am still trying to work out the best way to get the new hole perpendicular through the tang. If anybody can help there I would be very greatfull!!
I've, (hopefully) included a picture of a pivot pin hole I have restored recently.

The way I make sure my drill press is drilling perpendicular is to drill a hole in a 2x4 or thicker piece and then stick a rod in the hole and check for square. It has worked for me to get the pivot hole in pocket knives. Before drilling I put a prop under the front of the drill press table. When drilling steel, the table will flex forward just a hair due to lack of support on the front of the table. It is very slight but I built a small metal lathe from scratch once and accuracy was important. That is how I drill the end of a rod. I drill a hole the size of the rod and stick it in the hole and then drill the end. Mack

I'm with Philadelph on this one... I've never filled in & re-drilled a pivot hole.

I do put 3/32" OD 1/16" ID tube overtop my 1/16" pin, if the hole is large enough. if its not, I jsut use the 1/16" rod only.

The only time I ever find a blade to be loose enough to be annoying...has been times when the 3/32" tube fits, and it fixes the annoyance. So, no need to drill. ever. for me anyway.

Just make sure you never make the tube wider than the tang..otherwise no matter how long you peen the blade will never get tight ;)

http://www.adrian.edu/%7Ebmaggard/319.GIF

My concern with not fixing the egg shaped hole is that no matter how secure you peen the pin, after a while there will eventually be a very slight movement or sliding, if you will, of the handle. It may not be noticable at first but it will happen and when it does " if the razor is used enough" it will egg shape the hole in the scale. Remember, when the manufacture made the razor, the hole was secure and it ended up egg shaped. The stress of opening and closing and stroping etc. will eventually cause problems. Besides, I am obsessive about mine.

I have used JB Weld on some of my razors and it works real well.
I had some and repaired a pulley on my lawn mower cuz it kept slicing off my v-belts. Worked like a charm now for 5 yrs.

Some of those large misshapen holes are not the product of wear and tear - a lot of old razors, particularly pre-1900 ones, had the hole punched in them (the smaller hole in an anvil, next to the hardy hole, was used by the hole-puncher) by the forger. These take on the shape of the punch - I've seen a lot of them, and most are squarish or oblong and very wide compared to the drilled holes in more modern razors. So - at a point in time it was normal for the hole to be over-sized, and those old razors don't seem to have any more problems than the ones produced much later (if anything I think they had less problems!).

Regards,
Neil

It is totaly water proof and even sets up under water,
another reason for using it on a razor
I was fixing a toilet at Stetson university before I retired from maintenance ten years ago. I droped a pair of pliers in the bowl and it broke a hole about the size of a dime completely through. I had some jb weld stuff called pool putty that was white, so I mixed it together and poked some in the hole and smoothed it over real thin. Water makes it easy to smooth over. It is still being used. The stuff is amazing.

I also use the brass tubing to stop the "sliding" of the blade. I haven't tried filling the pivot and redrilling it since I don't have the right equipment to ensure it's straight, but I just ream the pivot out JUST enough with a diamond tip grinder in my Dremel. Haven't had any problems yet :)

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Originally Posted by mackie

The way I make sure my drill press is drilling perpendicular is to drill a hole in a 2x4 or thicker piece and then stick a rod in the hole and check for square. It has worked for me to get the pivot hole in pocket knives. Before drilling I put a prop under the front of the drill press table. When drilling steel, the table will flex forward just a hair due to lack of support on the front of the table. It is very slight but I built a small metal lathe from scratch once and accuracy was important. That is how I drill the end of a rod. I drill a hole the size of the rod and stick it in the hole and then drill the end. Mack

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Thanks Mack,
I'll give the timber trick a go. I normally check the drill bit with a sliding protractor I have (for measuring golf club head angles). I don't think there would be much movement in the support table as I am only drilling through the epoxy steel, fairly simple and little pressure is required. I think my major problem lies in getting the tang perpendicular to the drill bit. I normally just lay the razor on a piece of timber, but as I'm sure you know tangs are most often not uniformally thick but taper towards the end. Makes it hard to keep the tang perpendicular.:banghead:

I've only done one so far, it had an egg shaped hole that I cleaned up with a 3/32nd drill bit inserted the same size tube and repinned with 1/16th brass rod simple fast and easy.