To Dremel or Not To Dremel

Ok, one more.

I have the Lynn Abrams DVD and he uses a Dremel with a buffing wheel along with MAAS. Then, I read a post here where gsixgun says Dremel is a no no (read Perfect Is the Enemy of Good). Too easy to catch and ruin.

So, my friends, please help set me straight.

Thanks

David

If you have a lot of experience with a dremel, and are patient, it can work....

....but most guys who wind up using a dremel seem to do so as part of a desire to speed things up without buying and learning to use real power tools. The combination of a ridiculously fast, practically worthless marketing-gimmick-in-power-tool's-clothes and an impatient new restorer is the recipe for a ruined razor and/or missing digits or sucking chest wounds.

I'd just stick to hand-work...dremeling with MAAS or such doesn't really do much anyway, IMO/E.

Let me take a guess about what Glen was getting at... In unsure or unexperienced hands, a dremel or a buffer can be the quickest ways to destroy a razor...:overkill:

I know that I've read that some guys that do GREAT resto work use dremels, but these guys are not slouches. For the first try, handsanding is a safe and reliable way to go.

If you have some experience, and have a few razors to work with that you can get your skill up to speed on (not grandpa's), a buffer (or a dremel in a pinch) can save lots of time... but it can also ruin a razor, or really hurt you in the blink of an eye

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Originally Posted by Del1r1um

I know that I've read that some guys that do GREAT resto work use dremels, but these guys are not slouches.

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IME TheTopher could do a heck of a job mirror polishing a razor with a Dremel. After 10 or more hours of hand sanding. It wasn't a shortcut IOW.

Thanks. I actually have a great deal of experience sanding and buffing. I am a guitar maker and a pipe maker.

In spite of that, I am going to follow the advice given and stick with hand work. I have no reason to go fast. And if fast is the only benefit, with ruining my razors or hurting myself hanging in the balance, there is no value in it for me.

Thanks again.

David

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

IME TheTopher could do a heck of a job mirror polishing a razor with a Dremel. After 10 or more hours of hand sanding. It wasn't a shortcut IOW.

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True true... although a buffer does cut down the time a lot... still not for the faint of heart.

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Originally Posted by Del1r1um

True true... although a buffer does cut down the time a lot... still not for the faint of heart.

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Actually I was reinforcing the point that even with the skill that TheTopher has he still had to hand sand for 10 to 12 hours to get to the point where he would use the Dremel. If someone is not prepared to do that ground work the Dremel isn't going to be a more efficient way to go ... unless I'm badly mistaken. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Actually I was reinforcing the point that even with the skill that TheTopher has he still had to hand sand for 10 to 12 hours to get to the point where he would use the Dremel. If someone is not prepared to do that ground work the Dremel isn't going to be a more efficient way to go ... unless I'm badly mistaken. :shrug:

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Oh I know that... this time i was talking about a bench buffer (with greaseless), not a dremel. I agree 100% with you.

I actually have a lot of dremel experience from past crafts and hobbies. I tell people all the time not to use a dremel because most asking are usually trying to find a shortcut. I do use my dremel for some sanding when making scales and for inlay work. I even use it for some polishing on parts of the metal. I would never use it early on in the restore and certainly would never ever use it to do any sanding on the metal.

My point of view is, if you have enough experience to use a dremel for a restore, you would not have to ask if or when you should use a dremel for a restore.

Well said, Baron.

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Originally Posted by Alembic

Thanks. I actually have a great deal of experience sanding and buffing. I am a guitar maker and a pipe maker.

In spite of that, I am going to follow the advice given and stick with hand work. I have no reason to go fast. And if fast is the only benefit, with ruining my razors or hurting myself hanging in the balance, there is no value in it for me.

Thanks again.

David

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Dremel is handy for certain tasks, usually outside razor restorations, but it is a fact that you can really speed things with it if you know to use it.

For all works i've done with old razors, knives, furnitures, whatever, i like most the ones i've done with my hand tools only.

Many years ago one of my shooting friends said something about Dremels which may chime with those in the U.S. There is a school of thought that says so much damage has been done by amateur gunsmiths with them that there should be a 'cooling-off' period when purchasing one.

Variable speed rotary tool is very much usable for resto work if you know how to use properly and are skilled with your hands.
Foredom sells 500rpm-20-25k rpm tools, but you can get a Chinese knock off for a lot cheaper. I have used mine from rough sanding all the way to 2k sand paper, but mostly I go to 1500 then tumbler.When you put your razor on one of those magnetic backed jugs then the work on the the edge becomes so much more easier, and the chance of destroying the edge is much smaller.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

When you put your razor on one of those magnetic backed jugs then the work on the the edge becomes so much more easier, and the chance of destroying the edge is much smaller.

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Stefan, I've got one of those magnetic jigs with the aluminum heat sink. Are they really effective in dissipating the heat enough to prevent damaging the temper ?

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Originally Posted by TheBaron

I actually have a lot of dremel experience from past crafts and hobbies. I tell people all the time not to use a dremel because most asking are usually trying to find a shortcut. I do use my dremel for some sanding when making scales and for inlay work. I even use it for some polishing on parts of the metal. I would never use it early on in the restore and certainly would never ever use it to do any sanding on the metal.

My point of view is, if you have enough experience to use a dremel for a restore, you would not have to ask if or when you should use a dremel for a restore.

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TheBaron,

Your point is well taken. I do have the experience and skill for a restore. But the razors in question I am restoring belonged to my great-grandfather and I have never restored a razor before. So I was looking to find the why's/why nots. Again, I could care less about speed.

David

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Variable speed rotary tool is very much usable for resto work if you know how to use properly and are skilled with your hands.

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Dremels are extremely valuable and powerful tools that can do a lot of good in the right hands, and a lot of damage in the wrong hands. Btw @ someone earlier in this thread: dremels are fairly good quality tools.

I sometimes sand by hand for umpteen hours, and sometimes with the low rpm grinder I built and for which the design is in the wiki.

I have paid my dues handsanding, and have reached the point where I can confidently use my dremel with a flapwheel on a 200 year old John barber razor to remove pitting damage. However, it is really not something I'd advise a newbie to do, and I still do the rest by hand.

The good thing about doing everything manually for many razors is that you really get a feeling for what you are doing, and if you make a mistakes they are not fatal.

I use my Dremel buffing wheel all the time, that and a glass of ice cold water, I don't see what the problem is at all. I have hand sanded before, and I find the results to be much better with a Dremel imho.

I dremel for a minute or so, then once the blade begins feeling warm to the touch I then dip in cold water for a few minutes, and repeat until it's finished.

I find using the dremel only for final polishing is useful, for fixing bad rust or pitting marks only hand sanding will do.

I use the Dremel with car polish to get a mirror finish. High speed, and I do not get close to the edge I try to just leave that area as is.

cheers,
David

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Stefan, I've got one of those magnetic jigs with the aluminum heat sink. Are they really effective in dissipating the heat enough to prevent damaging the temper ?

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I am not sure about aluminum, I use stainless steel plate on top of the magnets and have never had heating problems while sanding, and Imean not temperature change whatsoever. If your aluminum plate is thick enough it will work just fine I think. I use sanding barrel made the same way as described here .
I have however noticed the blade would heat up when polishing with maas and CrO. The blade will not be so hot as to not be able to touch, but its where I try to be more careful.

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Originally Posted by Alembic

Ok, one more.

I have the Lynn Abrams DVD and he uses a Dremel with a buffing wheel along with MAAS. Then, I read a post here where gsixgun says Dremel is a no no (read Perfect Is the Enemy of Good). Too easy to catch and ruin.

So, my friends, please help set me straight.

Thanks

David

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:):) You need to re-read that, I even gave tips about how not to make mistakes...

But yes I do not think Dremel's are a good choice for Razors...

Here are my thoughts, Amateurs don't need the speed, and can do everything by hand, you are only doing your razors anyway..

Professionals rarely stay with the Dremel, as the buffers are so much better..

So the Dremel comes out by three types of people, either a total newb that wants to do things fast, which is where we get the most disaster stories...

Or the guy that is starting to move from only doing his few razors to doing his many razors and we get an occasional disaster story..

Or the guy that is moving from doing his razors to doing other peoples razors and hasn't gone to a buffer yet, and he is pretty good at using the Dremel and the safety tricks.... Once you use a buffer the Dremel is rarely used again...

Now when you talk modifications and such then a Dremel is the KING !!!!

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Stefan, I've got one of those magnetic jigs with the aluminum heat sink. Are they really effective in dissipating the heat enough to prevent damaging the temper ?

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I've said it before: If it is not hot enough to blister your fingers, it won't hurt the temper. If you never sand in 1 spot for a long time, the general temperature of the blade will tell you when to take a break.

I use my dremel buffing wheel with the razor resting on wood (not exactly known for good thremal properties :)) and I haven't ruined 1 razor yet. the trick is to always maintain contact with your fingers so that you feel the blade temperature.

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Originally Posted by Alembic

TheBaron,

Your point is well taken. I do have the experience and skill for a restore. But the razors in question I am restoring belonged to my great-grandfather and I have never restored a razor before. So I was looking to find the why's/why nots. Again, I could care less about speed.

David

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Well if you are Dremel experienced simply be aware that you can heat the metal faster than you think because it is so thin. Buffing wheels can grab the edge and throw the blade. Lower grit sanding can come out very uneven (as I'm sure you're aware) but on something as thin as a razor you can end up with a wavy blade.

Personally, if it were restoring something that was my great grandfathers I would probably not use my dremel. Not just because of an increased risk of any damage, but also because I think I would want to spend extra time working by hand to get to know the razor. Its an heirloom, I think I would want to become a little more intimate with it.

Perhaps some sand paper and some Barry White... No, wait, not that kind of intimate. Seriously though, consider finding a bunch of music your great grandfather listened to, put it on in the background and start hand sanding. Its not often you will get to work on a piece that will mean as much to you, IMHO.

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Originally Posted by TheBaron

Well if you are Dremel experienced simply be aware that you can heat the metal faster than you think because it is so thin. Buffing wheels can grab the edge and throw the blade. Lower grit sanding can come out very uneven (as I'm sure you're aware) but on something as thin as a razor you can end up with a wavy blade.

Personally, if it were restoring something that was my great grandfathers I would probably not use my dremel. Not just because of an increased risk of any damage, but also because I think I would want to spend extra time working by hand to get to know the razor. Its an heirloom, I think I would want to become a little more intimate with it.

Perhaps some sand paper and some Barry White... No, wait, not that kind of intimate. Seriously though, consider finding a bunch of music your great grandfather listened to, put it on in the background and start hand sanding. Its not often you will get to work on a piece that will mean as much to you, IMHO.

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Baron - Now you're talkin. You are a romantic after my own heart. I will be doing it by hand.

David

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

:):) You need to re-read that, I even gave tips about how not to make mistakes...

But yes I do not think Dremel's are a good choice for Razors...

Here are my thoughts, Amateurs don't need the speed, and can do everything by hand, you are only doing your razors anyway..

Professionals rarely stay with the Dremel, as the buffers are so much better..

So the Dremel comes out by three types of people, either a total newb that wants to do things fast, which is where we get the most disaster stories...

Or the guy that is starting to move from only doing his few razors to doing his many razors and we get an occasional disaster story..

Or the guy that is moving from doing his razors to doing other peoples razors and hasn't gone to a buffer yet, and he is pretty good at using the Dremel and the safety tricks.... Once you use a buffer the Dremel is rarely used again...

Now when you talk modifications and such then a Dremel is the KING !!!!

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gssixgun,

Crap. I did not see page 2 of that thread. I stand corrected. Still, I think I want to do hand work on these just for the intimacy of it. But I understand the risks of a dremel if I decide to use it, and I do have the skills to use it.

I will PM you about something else.

David

Anti dremel techniques for polishing:

1) Use the polishing(rouge) bars directly on the blade. Just grab the bar of polishing compound and work it back and forth across the blade, wipping off with a towel between grades. I have done this in the past on a restoration of a gun barrel, on knives and on straight razors. It's done by hand, and therefor you have more control.

2)Use the liquid metal polish in conjunction with a piece of cork. You can get in tight corners and apply ample pressure where needed. The cork works very well to conform to tight corners etc...

Both of these techniques offer 2 common thing that you cannot achieve with the dremmel - CONTROL and SAFETY. You also do not need to worry about over heating.