Has anyone used Black Palm for scales?

Ok, just got in a bit of new woods to work with. One of the most exciting is the Black Palm. This stuff is just way too cool & I just wondered if any of you have any experience working with it, specifically scales. Wondered if tear-out is an issue & what your recommended finishes are. I found/bought a old black or red palm in an antique store that looks like it was used to grind herbs, grains, or medicines in a pumice type bowl (The word that describes it escapes me at the time) back in the day and noticed how some of the grain is seperating. This is why I am asking about tearout & recommended finishes.

Yeah I did a few of them some time ago if you look in the Gallery of restorations and Search Black Palm they should pop up...
Personally it is a gorgeous wood but a major PITA to work and yes tear out as you call it is very bad, Sanding it is tuff, but the finish goes on like a dream.... IIRC I used a few different finishes, but I think the Tung Oil was the best...

I think I found the one you were talking about Glen, correct me if I'm wrong: http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...lack-palm.html

I usually rough out my scales with a band saw, then finish up the edge shaping to whatever pattern I am using on sanding drums & belt sander turned upside down clamped in the vise. Then (here is where I'm worried about "tear-out") I'll usually radius the edges that will be on the outside on my router table. From there it's usually all by hand. Anything that you would NOT recommend or recall that made it a PITA to work with?

Band saw = Check
Sander = Check

Router = Hmmmmmmm I ain't so sure

:):):)

There was a DD #1.... I did too and something else maybe a Boker, I know I did three of them, because that was how many sets of blanks I had and I never bought more of it

I'll just give it a whirl and see what happens. Thanks for the input, i truely appreciate it. I made a big order on some wood last week and most is in: purple heart, ziricote, leopardwood, cocobolo, bolivian rosewood, bocote, and of course the black palm. I jumped into the elephant ivory, so the wood doesn't really scare me too bad. What's the worst that can happen when working with power tools????

Yes. It is very fibrous and will chunk very easily. I used an epoxy resin finish on them. I have some turning stock and and have tried turning it but it is one of the few woods I have not been able to master. It likes to shred. Quite difficult to work.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

I'll just give it a whirl and see what happens. Thanks for the input, i truely appreciate it. I made a big order on some wood last week and most is in: purple heart, ziricote, leopardwood, cocobolo, bolivian rosewood, bocote, and of course the black palm. I jumped into the elephant ivory, so the wood doesn't really scare me too bad. What's the worst that can happen when working with power tools????

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Wear a mask!

I would skip the router table in favor of some good sanding or (my preference) a good set of wood rasps and spokeshaves.

That wood is beautiful. I may look into getting some.

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Originally Posted by BKratchmer

Wear a mask!

I would skip the router table in favor of some good sanding or (my preference) a good set of wood rasps and spokeshaves.

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Way to go. I thought that I was the only one using spokeshaves, drawknives and such! Last winter I split our firewood with a mallet and froe. I actually have my father's old shaving horse as well, though it does look a bit out of place in the garage...

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Originally Posted by blockhead

Way to go. I thought that I was the only one using spokeshaves, drawknives and such! Last winter I split our firewood with a mallet and froe. I actually have my father's old shaving horse as well, though it does look a bit out of place in the garage...

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A man after my own heart! I'm in the process of building a shaving horse myself... I'm a tremendous believer in the ease and precision of hand-tools. :)

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Originally Posted by BKratchmer

A man after my own heart! I'm in the process of building a shaving horse myself... I'm a tremendous believer in the ease and precision of hand-tools. :)

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From well before the time I was old enough to walk, my Father had a shop much in the vein of "The Woodwright's Shop" ( but well before that show) called "The Bodger Shop". Repro furniture, no glue, no nails, bending wood that was steamed over a coal fire, went into the woods and felled trees, drug them out on his back, everything by hand- the whole nine. Amazing stuff. Glad that I had that experience as a child. Really shaped me as far as woodworking goes, or working in general. Needless to say, hand eye coordination is my strong point. :)

Here is a pic of me weaving a chair seat when I was about 14-15 or so... You can just make out the head of the sawhorse just above the top slat of the rocker I am working on.

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs228...._1830110_n.jpg

See that foot powered treadle lathe in the background? That is what I am going to turn some brush blanks on, if I can notch out the time.

Thanks for the input guys, I just got off the train, so am going to bed. I'll see what I can turn out Tuesday.

I had much the same experience with my step father. He was mean as hell but he was good at building or fixing almost anyting and he had a shop full of hand tools that he would let me use any time I wanted. He did not help me too much but he would always tell me what I did wrong and I learned a lot from just watching him work. I swear, he could make anything. Now they say that about me but I will never be as good as him. Having been a knife maker for years I have to say that Bocote is by far my favorite wood.

I'll have to take some pictures, but they turned out great. Well, I'll tell you the whole truth. There are a extra set of scales on my workbench with a piece/chunk of the fiber pulled out right at where the pivot pin would be. I'll be posting pics of: C-Mon in black palm, Eskilstuna Sweeden (NOS from classifieds) in leopardwood, and Henkels in snakewood.

The woods. I agree with everyone about black palm being a PITA to work with, but boy is it nice looking finished. Leopardwood, good dense hardwood...I like it. Snakewood, mixed emotions on this one...if I hadn't finished it in CA, I'm sure it would be too soft for scales. Those "scales" you see in the pictures on the wood are virtually hollow with a whispy wood substance in them about the consistency of cotton & just a little bit harder.

Again, thanks for your help guys...

Scott

i like to soak as much CA into the parts that im cutting or drilling
that helps somewith the pull out
also using stabilized wood makes it much better

That's funny, Scott. Snakewood I've worked with has been the hardest, densest stuff... I know that 'snakewood' isn't necessarily one species, though... do you know which variety yours was?

This is the snakewood that I worked with. Guy was real nice and actually gave me a "sample" after e-mailing him on suggestions for finishes. That sample is actually what I used for the scales after taking it to the belt sander to get the mystery finish off it. Good seller by the way...

MIKEC* STAB. AMAZON SPALTED SNAKESKIN KNIFE SCALES -U2 - eBay (item 380194643424 end time Jan-28-10 18:09:07 PST)

Okay. This is the snakewood I was thinking of, which I have used before and is used to make instrument bows.... rather different material. That stuff you got does look VERY porous.

Here's the pics as promised:
Blade is a C-Mon & it shaves great!!

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Second is the amazon spalted snakewood:
Blade is Henckels Twinworks Platinum, again, great shaver

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I hate how the fingerprints show up now that I have posted them. Obviously I'm no photographer...

Here's the other ones:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...tml#post538884

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Originally Posted by BKratchmer

Okay. This is the snakewood I was thinking of, which I have used before and is used to make instrument bows.... rather different material. That stuff you got does look VERY porous.

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Ok, looked at the link and I posted the pics of another SR that I rescaled in this batch, it's in leopardwood. The link you showed me is the same stuff I did the Swedish blade in: http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...tml#post538884

Is this the same stuff you were talking about?

I've been looking at Black Palm myself for work, I love the way it looks. Anyone know if it would tear using a hole saw on it?

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Originally Posted by TheBaron

I've been looking at Black Palm myself for work, I love the way it looks. Anyone know if it would tear using a hole saw on it?

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Probably so due to the low TPI of most hole-saws. If you do try it, I'd spin it fast & advance slowly. Sounds like almost burning thru, but that's what I would do if I were to try to hole saw some. I'd also try to apply my finish first, then re-apply after the work is done so that the finish would help to hold the fibers together some. Heck, try it, it's super unique!

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Probably so due to the low TPI of most hole-saws. If you do try it, I'd spin it fast & advance slowly. Sounds like almost burning thru, but that's what I would do if I were to try to hole saw some. I'd also try to apply my finish first, then re-apply after the work is done so that the finish would help to hold the fibers together some. Heck, try it, it's super unique!

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aye, looks like it would make a pretty brush handle but I know that's one of the woods that explodes on a lathe. seemed like a good candidate for the hole saw method. Think I'll make that black palm my next brush handle.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Ok, looked at the link and I posted the pics of another SR that I rescaled in this batch, it's in leopardwood. The link you showed me is the same stuff I did the Swedish blade in: http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...tml#post538884

Is this the same stuff you were talking about?

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Not quite the same stuff... I'll have to get some good pictures of one of my pieces of Suriname snakewood.... it's very distinctive.

EDIT: All those scales and blades look nice, BTW. I especially like the black palm, and the way you've shaped them. CA finish?

Thanks. Yes, CA finish on all three. Pretty dang deep on the black palm outside. As long as you sand down the high spots, I'm sure you could just keep on layering coats. I'm still learning with it. Went thru almost a box of finger cots/condoms. It's hard to not show a layer or finger sweep with it drying so dang fast, but boy what a tough finish. I just took them to 2K grit & didn't even polish them. I think that I'll put a coat or two of renissance wax on them. The design is a simple one with the end rounded out with a sanding drum. I like the design enough that I think I will keep on doing my own SR rescales with it...but who knows what tomorrow may bring...

On the snakewood, I'm not sure what I got to be honest. I liked the way it looked & had to have it. I have to say that it is quite unique, I've never seen it before. That's why I gave such a chunk of change for it. I don't think that I would want to use it on much anything unless I used an epoxy finish or CA. The hard part reminds me of amber/sap, as it doesn't appear to have a grain in it. I'm wondering if it's the "heart" of some kind of wood. I just don't know.

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Originally Posted by TheBaron

aye, looks like it would make a pretty brush handle but I know that's one of the woods that explodes on a lathe. seemed like a good candidate for the hole saw method. Think I'll make that black palm my next brush handle.

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I think it would make a real cool brush handle. You would probably be one of the first to have one...

In woodworking books you always read the analogy that the make up of wood is like a bundle of straws. Black-palm or any palm is just that, it is a bundle of straw like strands. You must really pay attention to which way the grain is running and use sharp tools. It is not a hard wood to work just different. It is fiberous, kind of like bamboo.

Charlie

In woodworking books you always read the analogy that the make up of wood is like a bundle of straws. Black-palm or any palm is just that, it is a bundle of straw like strands. You must really pay attention to which way the grain is running and use sharp tools. It is not a hard wood to work just different. It is fibrous, kind of like bamboo but thicker strands


Charlie

What is CA finish and how do you apply it?

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Originally Posted by mackie

What is CA finish and how do you apply it?

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super glue finish
its water proof durable and not too hard to put on and get to look nice

tip to save those finger rubb ers plastic bags from the store wraped around your finger and yopu can move around to different "clean" parts of the bag