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Anyone ever had success with restoring a box (cardboard, not wooden) with oh... say badly faded, the bottom falling out etc... I like the look of an old original box with a new looking razor inside, but not when it's gone beyond functionality or no longer readable.
My first thought was paint, then dye, then ink... I'm wondering what sort of outcomes anyone has had.
I searched "box restoration" and couldn't come up with anything.
2knives, I have been pondering on getting one of these for a while...I know what you mean about the "old" look. Once you get to the site you have to look around for one that is not sold...There are still a couple left.
Scaramanga - Leather Satchel & Messenger Bags
Among many other things, creating replica boxes have been on my list of things to do for some time. Too many ideas and not enough time, however.
I've gone as far as soaking several different types in water overnight and I've separated the cardboard core from the outer paper. The core would be used as a template. It's rigid cardboard. The outer papers, faux leather, etc will be the challenge since they're so thin.
The old Sheffield coffin exteriors look to be almost papier mache over the cardboard and then look to be painted with a black paint/glue.
Chris L
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL
Interesting! Great start... thanks
I have been planning to restore this razor case which is covered by the same type of leatherette material that many of the razor coffins are covered in. I found that bookbinding companies carry many of the materials that could be used in making new coffins such as heavy cardboards, the proper glues, etc. I hope this is of some help.
Regards - Walt
http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/IMG_1045.jpg
Here are a couple of links that might be helpful. They pertain to books, but some of the treatments of bindings may be useful:
How to Clean Books | Stuff
How to Remove Mold and Prevent it from Forming on Old Books - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com
Hope these help. Good luck!
If you find any leatherette papers that are extremely thin, please post here or PM me. I have gone as far as receiving some samples of leatherette papers from a bookbinding source (forgot the name at the moment and my bookmarked sites were wiped out when my computer crashed recently); I had to pay like $5 for the samples. Appearance wise, they're suitable for razor coffins, but they're much thicker, relatively speaking and are backed in a sort of fine cloth (which adds to their thickness). They would not crease easily as would be necessary for the ends of the boxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt
If you soak an old razor coffin in water to take one apart you'll see the old papers were........."paper thin":)
Chris L
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintchase
Ok I LOVE the look and style of those Shave Boxes. I really want one....now does anyone know of anyone/place in the states that sells them?
The more of these old boxes I see, the more I lean toward thinking that after the rectangular thick core was wrapped in fine layers of paper and pressed against a mould to form a pattern (if you unwind one you will see that often the pattern carries on over to the next layer - they couldn't have been pre-patterned then rolled) they were treated with some kind of 'dope' finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL
I have looked at a lot of old varnish recipes especially formulated for paper, and they seem to contain powdered copal resin, dissolved sandarac resin, powdered mastic, benzine, chloroform, ethyl alcohol, lamp black, ivory black etc. They would have been quick-drying and some types could be brought up to a shine by rubbing with a cloth.
A further sub-division of old formulas included gums such as arabic and dammar along with a pigment such as lamp black or ivory black, but these would have been slow drying.
I have benzine, ethyl alcohol chloroform and today I sorted out a few 'beyond repair' coffins to work on, so I will see if any of those solvents will dissolve the finish - that should narrow the type of dope down a bit.
One of the sources of paper-box making in the 1700s - 1800s that I read mentioned a 'former' such as a piece of wood shaped like the interior of a razor coffin being 'smeared in tallow' before the dampenend card was wrapped around it and then secured in place by layers of paper. I haven't been able to detect any tallow (grease) on the insides of any of the old coffins I have seen, but I haven't soaked one yet with that purpose in mind - it should be water resistant on one side and not the other if they used this method I would have thought.
As an aside, the black damping stuff you used to see painted on the old paper loudspeaker cones looked a bit like the stuff used on the outside of razor coffins.
Regards,
Neil
Thanks for all the info. Can you share your sources Neil; sounds like some fun reading.
Some thoughts on what you said: The block form need not be slathered, dont ya think? . You would "grease" it and rub it in. The reason being -the glue wouldn't stick to it.
additionally one would also see layers as an artifact of card board manufacture- making the board to make the case.
I have always been interested in making coffins- well ever since I had a razor coffin. The embossed ones---somewhere somebody has the plates
I had some good results with pure acetone, for cleaning boxes. However you want to use a q tip and be mindful of any color that begins to come off.
Well, I too have been having a difficult time... partly because I am always trying to figure out how to store razors that come without a box or without an adequate box...
I have gone as far as cutting cardpoard from poster paper...or manila folders... Lots of times the ends of the boxes are gone lots of the times so I replace that with poster paper thickness and sometimes use Magic markers to mix the colors to a fairly correct appearance... at least they are then functional... I then glue the ends with regular elmers... haven't found super glue or ca to work so well on this project.
I have one box where all the colored outside paper is gone ... I have been trying to cover it with black construction paper.. I'm trying to fold the ends the way the origingal paper was folded... its working sort of... I'll let you know how it comes out.
I've been looking for some gold or silver metalic ink to use for Make and Model..
Maq
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevint
Hi Kevin,
Yes - I make you right - it probaly just needs enough to act as a release-agent. I guess if the former was made of metal, even less would be necessary?
I have been thinking about the manufacture of the boxes, and what with the prevalence of "Little Mesters" renting space in early factories and the preponderance of workshop forges, I'm beginning to think that the box manufacturing might well be a separate trade, possibly not performed on the premises and maybe even not in the same locality. It may have been performed by women or children, or by people who were not even related to the cutlery business.
I used to be interested in the small boxes that early photographic images such as ambrotypes and tintypes came in. They often had a stamped metal foil, with the most intricate designs, surrounding the picture, the whole held together with a frame once more stamped out of metal foil (often gilded) and often richly decorated. Later, the wooden boxes gave way to early forms of plastic - these then had ornamental designs on them, made by moulding them against a variety of formers. The fact that different companies produced boxes, frames and mattes with the same designs means that someone was turning out the moulds to make them with, but despite attempts being made by hundreds, if not thousands of individuals, none of these formers has ever been found (that I know of).
I expect that the same (regarding lack of evidence of moulds and formers) will hold true for razor coffins.
What has been found are some engravings of photo-box factories - existing in complete isolation to other photographic processes. What I found interesting about these was a set of engravings showing the making of a small box, constructed out of thin wood, paper strips, glue and thin padding. The box was not made in two halves. It was made in one piece, then when everything had dried it was sawn in two. Some of the razor coffins I have seen remind me of that. They apear to have been made in one piece, probably with a wooden or metal former as the core, then cut into two, a rectangular core of open-ended folded card being then glued into one half and left protruding so that the other end could be slipped on and off at will.
People currently producing period style (circa 1860s, 1870s) photo boxes use stamps made from taking silicone rubber moulds of the existing boxes, frames and mattes, using these to make casts with high impact resins, and then using the resin moulds to stamp out thin metal foil frames, etc.
I will gladly share the info I have gathered over time with you, but it is in the form of a text document that I keep on my computer desktop and regularly clip and paste things into. It is a bit rambling, concerning papier mache, varnish recipes and even bits about women who worked alongside the grinders in Sheffield. I only keep references that I think are particularly pertinent, so these are quite few. If you really want to read it I'll post it here, or I suppose I could pm it to you if its of no interest to anyone except ourselves.
Regards,
Neil.
I'll try to wade through it:)
The fold away mirror boxes are cool too. (design wise)-- i'm not too interested in their shabby appearance.
good luck with your work gents!
PM sentQuote:
Originally Posted by kevint
Regards,
Neil
Restoration of a paper/ cardboard box might be impossible. HoweverQuote:
Originally Posted by jtischler
I have used varnish and or used shellac and tissue paper to make cardboard
boxes durable for some things. A collector may look down at a repaired box.
You might also use dilute carpenters glue or decoupage glue and apply
very thin layers to the inside of the box with a fine brush to make it
more durable.
One of the sponsors (ClassicShaving.com) here does sell plastic Dovo
coffins. Other vendors may also have them. But note I have a large
scaled Dovo that does not fit in one of these coffins. Some 50 cent
toothbrush travel cases will fit some razors so will some grade school
pen/pencil cases.
Has anybody gone any farther with this topic I did Taxidermy for 20 years and the inside of the boxes it is obviously made out of paper mache paper and glue made out of flour the outside is a part that I'm not sure about it's obviously a very thin paper very thin paper and the coding I have no idea what it is the boxes were probably made around the mold much the same as we made Taxidermy mannequins back in the early days if anybody has any new information let me know
I've varnished them before. It makes it really easy to apply and color and seal small tears In the box. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...fbea5498f1.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...1418ce36f7.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...f03a52b92f.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...3c158f90f6.jpg
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Here are a couple links to some old threads on box making, an interesting thread by the Great Neil Miller on Sheffield boxes here, Coffin Box Deconstruction.
And a great thread by Joamo, Paper Cases. As I recall Joe posted templates for several razor designs, doubles and Sheffield’s, search for user Joamo.
There is a great link to a You Tube guy making boxes, buried in the original thread, look for it, he (the You Tube guy) also lists resources in his other post.
Found it Sage Reynolds, He has several great You Tube videos.
Boy, I do miss Neil…
He may be gone, but his knowledge lives through those that share it with us that did not have the pleasure to know him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Which, I am very grateful for.
Thanks Guys for the help with your help and guidance I believe that I can reproduce a coffin box and...... sucessfully repair one that is not to badly damaged. Now to buy materials and see if I can put my experience where my mouth is :tu