scale inlays

Hi all,

Now im sure the following is the topic of many a past thread but since its relatively straight forward i'll go ahead and post my wee question:

I recently acquired a very nice Carl Rader, the only real issue bar some scattered spots is that the inlay in the scales is starting to come away at the top.

How do all the pro's out there generally go about re-sticking these inlays down? - its so tiny and fragile that im hesitant to use super glue or anything as i'm likely to end up with a huge blob over the whole area.

Thanks!

I have similar problem. Anybody know
a) what they attached the the little metal decals in the first place
b) what contemporary method could be used to attach it so I would still be possible to remove it, clean it up and attach to new scales.

EisenFaust;

Super Glue is probably the best thing you are going to find to secure that inlay. The important thing is choosing not only the right super glue consistency, but also the correct applicator.

For your purpose you will want one of the water-thin super glue mixes. On the one hand, this thin stuff will not bridge large gaps like the normal or the thickened gel formulas, but on the very positive side (for your problem) his stuff will flow into the very smallest cracks with ease.

The trick to getting the super glue to where you want it without blobbing it all over the surrounding surface is to use a fine tube-tip applicator. The very smallest ones are almost as fine as the needle of medical syringe. I've used these in the past for model building with outstanding results.

I'm providing you the following links for information.

Here is a page with some good information regarding super glue usage Super Glue Application and Storage Protocols

And here is another link to an on-line Hobby retail store to give you an idea of some of the available applicators HobbyKing Online R/C Hobby Store :

A last little tip: Even when using one of the fine applicators, have a tiny bit of rolled up paper tissue ready. If you do end up with slightly too much on the surface following your application, just touch any bead of super glue with the rolled-up paper tissue to wick it away. :)

Remember that super glue cleans up with acetone. But, beware! You don't want to get that acetone anywhere on your razor scales as it can do some serious surface damage to celluloid and plastic.

From the scales that I have examined where the inlay is coming away it looks like the scale was cast over the inlay - when the inlay comes away it leaves a depression in the surface. I have seen older scales where the inlay is made from quite a thick metal (relative to foil, that is, its still thin in reality) secured to a thin pin or bar which then bends at right angles and travels back to the wedge end - the bar/pin is sometimes buried completely within the scale material, sometimes it is visible on the inside of the scale.

I have seen other things (not razor scales) formed from plastic where the foil is secured to the bottom of the mould with a light adhesive, the plastic polymer is poured over it and allowed to set and when taken from the mould it takes the inlay with it, now embedded in the surface of the plastic. I suppose they must then buff the surface to remove traces of the binder that held the metal foil in place.

When only an edge of the inlay is coming away it can be problematical if the metal is at all 'springy' and lifts away from the scale. Getting a thin adhesive as suggested above behind it is not a problem, but keeping the scale in place is - some sticky tape wrapped around the whole scale helps. If a thin piece of paper is laid over the inlay first then the area is bound with sticky tape, that helps. The paper will absorb any seepage. Soaking the paper until soggy removes most of it - the rest of the mess can be carefully buffed away. Any heavy deposits can be removed with fine wet and dry paper, and the ensuing dullness can be buffed back to a gloss finish.

Sometimes the inlay comes adrift because of the different expansion rates of the metal and the plastic. Sometimes the scale material can shrink - then you get those little rolls in the inlay where it has been compressed - hard to fix.

Regards,
Neil

You might seriously want to stop at this point in time here....

There are a few threads in the Gallery that talk about inlay lifts and transfers, but I am going to give you some warnings here you can listen or not....

Acetone, will DESTROY Celluloid... literally melt it into nothing in fact that is what we use to lift the inlays off the old scales when doing a transfer... You dip the old scale in acetone and dissolve it... You can use Acetone in a good way to clean and polish old Celluloid and to actually glue with it but I would highly suggest testing how it works on other scales that you have no intention of keeping... In fact if done right you could use it to glue your inlay back into those scales ...

Super glue / CA will cloud on most Celluloids and Plastics, it looks like crap, try it on the inside first, before you try it on the outside.. Also CA doesn't really bond all that well to Celluliod in the first place...

I know I use epoxy, and I am pretty darn sure Max does too, when transferring inlays to Acrylics and these types of materials...

I use CA if I am going to custom wood scales now, and continue with a CA finish...CA under any other finish shows and it doesn't look clean...

+1 to Glen's comments..

acetone turns the celluloid into goupy ickyness.

thats how this happens:

http://www.adrian.edu/%7Ebmaggard/525.JPG

LOL TY Brad I was looking for old pics just now... :rock:

Celluloid & Acrylic are notoriously difficult to glue. Seriously I would leave it until it falls off then you can use Epoxy or Selleys make a "Plastics Glue" they claim glues "ALL" plastics including polyethelene & polypropylene. It also works for metal to plastic. The trouble is, it needs a primer applied to the plastic surface first so it is only good for complete transfer not a touch up as you are contemplating.. I have used it successfully on a recent Filarmonica logo transfer. Much better than CA. If you choose to use CA make sure its a low bloom CA or it will haze... & look like crap :)

I've used epoxy when gluing inlays as well as other minor things. I do it like this:

a) I use needle (just typical sewing needle, take it from your sewing box of your wife) and put a small drop of glue in the sharp end of the needle and spread it very careful in the backside of the inlay. No need to cover the back 100% now but cover as large area as you can. Use only small amount of glue and take another round if needed.
b) Take the thin rubber glove (would be nice if your wife has these too) and spread the glue evenly with your finger. Wipe the excess away. In case you somehow put the glue on the face of the inlay you can wipe out carefully now, but don't spread it there where it doesn't belong.
c) Put the inlay on the scale and press it tightly with your fingers for a moment (those fingers you didn't use for spreading the glue). The glue sticks tightly on the moment you put the inlay on the scale, so with difficult objects i put some painters tape to border the exact area where the inlay should go. Now it wont't go into wrong place. Now you can take the glove away. After the glue has hardened, tie the object with electrical tape for at least few hours to make sure it stays there.
d) If you -against all expectations- spread some glue on the place it doesn't belong, you can wipe it out carefully and polish with a Farecla or similar products.

Thanks for the tips and warnings about acetone. Good to know that acetone works on CA. I'll have to try that out.

Trouble in "waiting for it to fall off" is that it might snag on towel or something or break off due to constant bending.

Good point. I'd probably want to fix it. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

There a few threads in the Gallery that talk about inlay lifts and transfers, but I am going to give you some warnings here you can listen or not....

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Can anyone post a link to these threads? I've been searching for them for a while now and can't seem to find them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heirkb

Can anyone post a link to these threads? I've been searching for them for a while now and can't seem to find them.

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Here is one of the first ones, Dan/Floppyshoes and I did it some time back

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...-gssixgun.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I use CA if I am going to custom wood scales now, and continue with a CA finish...CA under any other finish shows and it doesn't look clean...

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I've had this problem too.
Experimentation led me to the following solution:

1. Apply CA without clouding (okay I know this goes without saying but it's crucial for obvious reasons)
2. Let cure at least an hour or two AFTER it is hardened
3. level any imperfections and scuff the surface all over. Steel wool is good for this.
4. Wipe the surface with a lint-free cloth damp with acetone
5. Apply a wash coat of clear shellac (1lb cut will do)
6. Lightly scuff, then clean with a damp rag or tack cloth
7. You're ready to topcoat with almost anything

This is what I do for crack/dent filling with CA on things like burls where you have knots and holes but want a flat finish.