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Hi Group,
I have read the posts here about tumbling, but I think this is always with respect to a blade that has been removed from the scales.
This might have possibly been covered, but is it possible to rig a fixture that will clamp onto the monkey tail and hold the blade in the tumbler, letting the compound swirl around the blade?
Has anyone tried this. If not, I am going to try it and post the results.
Thanks in advance.
David
Are you asking about tumbling a razor with the scales still on? I think that there was some input about this in the tumbler thread and, IIRC, the conclusion was that the scales are likely to get clogged with media and the razor might not get the proper circulation in order to clean the steel efficiently.
What I was thinking was to rig a fixure to hold the blade only up through the shank in the medium so the scales would not actually be in the tumbler.
Edit: I know that a lot of older scales can break while removing the pins, so I was thinking about how to use the tumbler to clean the blade without removing the pin. I know you can buff them, but I have some vintage razors that I don't want to loose the etching on.
And leave the top of the tumbler off? AFAIK, that would just make a ridiculous mess! Plus, you want the razor to move around within the tumbler during the whole process. You can try if you like, but I don't know about it...
Thanks, I will end that quest now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBango
Depends on the tumbler and how much media you have in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBango
I run mine all the time without the lid on.
I would imagine if you had enough bars/clamps you could rig something up, but would be easier to just learn how to unpin/repin the razor, it's a skill you will probably want to learn anyways, and makes cleaning razors much easier.
Thanks, but I'm not trying to avoid learning to re-pin. I was just curious if it had been tried.Quote:
Originally Posted by superbleu
I don't mean to end your experiment! I've been proven wrong before, so if someone does it again I won't be shocked.
Come to think of it.... If you're willing to ruin a tumbler bowl for the test, this idea just might work! :idea:
Cut a slot near the bottom of the bowl, below the "water line" of the media, and carefully insert the blade through the slot into the bowl. then seal the extra space around the razors with tape so media doesn't pour out. Fill up the bowl and turn it on. Ideally the hole will be low enough that the razor can be slid through the slot and not rest on any surface.. I'd keep an eye on it the first bit to make sure the razor doesn't move around too much in the hole.
Anyone have any thoughts? I'd hate this idea to ruin a razor. Here's a picture I drew to help visualize.
I think it might be a viable idea,,,
The only negative I can think of is if it works you would have a shiny clean blade and a dirty tang.....
Thanks Glen,Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I was Ok with buffing the tang. It was the etching on the blade I did not want to loose.
I know many things have been tried by the experienced guys here, an I was just thinking maybe this would be a good compromise.
Good picture but it looks like a plan to hide
a razor in a bunt cake to sneak it into
a secure area (prison?).
The problem I see is that the place where
the blade passes into the tumbler would be
a point of abrasion and the scales would
be vibrated all to heck and need to
be repined if they were still any good.
I would expect the hole in the scales to be
vibrated to be large and sloppy perhaps falling
out.
However it might be possible to take a wedge of
cork and a bunch of rubber bands and drop the
razor in the walnut strapped open just enough to polish
the blade and the scales. Some scales
are thick enough to endure some extra polish.
Still the tail and pivot area would not see the polish.
Not removing the scales will guarantee missing some spots whether or not you put the whole thing in or rig some sort of "dipping" system.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
It certainly will need to account for all the vibrating that will happen to the scales. Good call. What to do exactly I don't know...Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
Fail or no fail, I'll be X-raying any bundt cakes I receive in the near future. :D
David: I know you don't want to learn how to un-pin and repin a razor, and I agree that some razors are too nice to risk the scales to a misplaced tap of the hammer. But still, you're gonna have to learn how to work on a tumbler AND modify the bowl AND protect the scales from damage the vibration might cause. (It'll be in there a few days I'm guessing.) Pinning advice is in the Wiki but this other stuff isn't...
Another point to mention - the tumbler is going polish the edge of the razor too. IME, edges that went through the tumbler are much harder to set a bevel on. It's like it was breadknifed. Just something else to keep in mind when you consider what kind of work is involved.
My interest is piqued enough to wait to see what happens. Please post photos and updates if you go through it.
I have done the whole razor in the tumbler routine,,, That was a no joy situation as the media just got stuck inside the scales and the razor, even using the large tumbler I have, I didn't feel safe leaving the razor open...But Bingo's idea of suspending the razor could work someone has to rig it though to see...
Quote: Another point to mention - the tumbler is going polish the edge of the razor too. IME, edges that went through the tumbler are much harder to set a bevel on. It's like it was breadknifed. Just something else to keep in mind when you consider what kind of work is involved...
+1 not quite as bad but very close.. they are DULL after 4-5 days
Some good ideas have been shared and some good questions have been raised. If i may suggest another idea. In the interest of not ruining a tumbler, consider this. Using a large can, such as a large tomato sauce can or a large can of juice, cut or drill a hole in the center of one end of the UNOPENED can large enough to insert the razor blade into and remove the contents of the can through that hole. Clean the interior of the can and place a rubber grommet into the hole that will protect the edges of the razor and help make a seal. Next, use a wooden dowel and center it onto a round piece of wood that is the same size of the other end of the can. Glue with hot glue or 2 part epoxy, the round piece of wood with the dowel on it to the other end of the can (the one with out the hole in it). you may now clamp your razor by the tail into a vise and insert the media into the tin can. place the dowel into a drill and then insert the clamped razor into the can and squeeze the trigger. The can and the media will rotate around the razor. This will be a cheaper and maby a better way to get the results that you are looking for. I might also suggest that once you have inserted the razor into the can you can use electrical tape and wrap it around the tang of the razor where it is inside the can to help with sealing the tumbler and protecting the tang. If you try this, I would really like to know the results.
Ken
I found a volunteer!
Attachment 43119
I have an Alwin I've hand sanded from here
Attachment 43118
to here. (Still lots of scratches - one of my first hand sanding attempts from months ago)
Attachment 43120
Place in lid
Attachment 43121
Place in tumbler
Attachment 43122
and off she goes!
Attachment 43123
I hope to post preliminary results in 24 to 36 hours.
Loving it!!!
Poncho, you sir are a "Git-r-Done" sorta guy like me, screw all the planning and talking about it I'll just go try it and see what happens :) If it shows promise you can fix a better rig later, if not then heck with it and move on LOL...
That was how the Tumbler stuff got started in the first place, I just went and tried it hehehe ...
Can't wait to see the results...
Wow- this has gone from a crazy idea that will only break your heart in the end to let's try and see what happens. I love this forum and the spirits of the people that post here.
Thank you for indulging.
David.
BTW - I have razors that I have no choice but to un pin.
I will learn all of the bags of tricks and hopefully invent some new ones.
Hey, has anybody tried wraping the scales in blue painters tape before tossing the razor into the hopper?
I mean where you would seal off the blade slot and everything. Just the blade, shank and monkey tail left exposed.
Hi David,Quote:
Originally Posted by Alembic
I hadn't thought about that; it might work. It sounds like this procedure is next on the "To Do" list! :)
On a slightly different tack, I have placed (horn) scales in the tumbler on purpose to polish them up a bit. They weren't pinned together yet, so I didn't have to worry about the media getting stuck between the scales. They turned out nice.
Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about! That should be the credo of this forum. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Alembic
BTW, thanks for starting this thread - you got me to try something new!
PS: the tumbling continues unabated . . .
Glad someone tried this! Looking forward to results...:popcorn:
The only problem I see with the "dipping" method is that the "water line" of the media flows up and down a bit. You might get a nice even gradation of polish to no polish, but you won't be able to control it quite the same as the idea of sticking it through a slot or something.
If I did the "stick it through the slot" method, I'd try to polish right up the the tang, and hopefully I could mimic the look of a blued tang - just with tarnish.
As for using painter's tape - you'd have to watch that the edges don't start coming up or wrap a few layers in case.
The edge could be taped. If the edge does not desperately
need polishing line up the tape to protect
the last 1/16" of the blade and it will not be as DULL.
Has anybody thought about how the media flows in the tumbler? It always flows in one direction, counterclockwise in mine. If you put a blade in through a slot, only one side would be polished. You would have to flip the blade around to allow the second side to come in direct contact with the media, making your tumbling time double. Just a thought.
What kind of tumbler do you have? I think a vibratory tumbler might appear to crate a whirlpool effect, but below the surface everything is washing around. If you're really concerned, twist the razor so that the blade is horizontal.Quote:
Originally Posted by rrp1501
To really grasp what's going on inside a tumbler, you need to understand the complex science behind fluid dynamics. This might help.
Wow, if only my engineering professors at the universaty coulld have presented information that clearly, I probably would have my PHD by now!:):):):):)Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBango
Well, it's been about 36 hours - long enough to get an idea of what's going on.
Well, there is a "water line" and here it's visible:Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBango
Attachment 43221
This photo was taken before I wiped the blade with the "workhorse" (ie: dirty) microfiber cloth in the background. You can see that about 80% of the blade was immersed in the media.
These pictures were taken after I wiped the surface,
Attachment 43222
and sort of show the tumbler beginning to do its work of polishing the (apparently not well sanded) blade.
Attachment 43223
I didn't think that this would be the case, but I did observe that there was a slight but noticable difference in the location of the "water line" on either side of the blade. Unfortunately, I don't have a good picture of the difference (lame digital camera skills + poor lighting in my basement)Quote:
Originally Posted by rrp1501
This method (of jamming it in there) is a bit rough on the razor, as you can see here:
Attachment 43224
I should note that when I first started working on this razor, I damaged the point a bit, and "reprofiled" the tip, which left it looking ok, but it was much thinner than before. It is entirely possible that the toe was damaged as a result of my sanding errors rather than the tumbler, but I think it shows that fragile blades may be more at risk if the blade movement inside the chamber is restricted.
Dude, you don't know how much I appreciated seeing that lecture!! :roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by BingoBango
If my engineering professors had looked anything like that I'd know that I'd fallen asleep in class, and was dreaming! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Alembic
Well, that's my report. If I feel really ambitious later, I have a razor that should be a candidate for taping the scales and chucking the whole thing in.
Thank you for conducting this experiment.
So, there is a waterline, it did polish, it seemed possibly rougher on the razor itself.
Now that we know what it does do, is there merit in trying to overcome the issues associatied with it?
Move the waterline almost to the scales and create a scenerio where the impact to the razor is minimized.
Lets ask the professor in the video if more experiments are in order. I believe the answer was yes.:)
Thanks for the update on the experiment. My guess is still that we'll see the most even and predictable results with the "slot" method or the "blue paper wrapped scales" method. Simply because these two methods will put the whole blade below that "water line." You can try to dip the blade further in, but with the uneven line made on each side you might always have a problem with uniformity. If I did the dip method I would put tape on the tang right up against the shoulder and try to have the media go past the tape to ensure the blade was evenly covered.
Another thing is the depth of the bowl: It would have to be deep enough to fit the length of the razor without touching the bottom and have some space for the water line at the top.
As for going forward with this experiment, someone should give the slot method a shot. It'll just about permanently ruin (or at least change the function) of one tumbler bowl. I'd volunteer but I don't own a tumbler - I just mooch off a fellow SRP member.
Rob - I'll spring for a new bowl if you want to give it a shot.
