Salvageable?

A few years back, I inherited my grandfather's old Puma High Class razor. I got it the way it's pictured. My grandfather used this razor in his barber shop for years before he died; after his death, it was put into storage until I asked to look at it.

When I got it, I gave up on it. But now I'm wondering, can this be made shave-worthy?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51242739@N04/4710508999/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51242739@N04/4711149280/

EDIT: I can't see the pictures I've included in the post, so just in case here are links to the photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51242739@N04/4710508999/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51242739@N04/4711149280/

Welcome to SRP Doc, photo isn't posted yet .

Thanks!
And in that case, I'll give it some time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DocZombie

A few years back, I inherited my grandfather's old Puma High Class razor. I got it the way it's pictured. My grandfather used this razor in his barber shop for years before he died; after his death, it was put into storage until I asked to look at it.

When I got it, I gave up on it. But now I'm wondering, can this be made shave-worthy?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51242739@N04/4710508999/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51242739@N04/4711149280/

EDIT: I can't see the pictures I've included in the post, so just in case here are links to the photos:
Photo 118 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Photo 120 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

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Oh hell.
I'm very sorry to say that it is doubtful. It looks like the classic case of celluloid rot. Tortoise shell patterned celluloid seems to be notorious for this. What happens is that the celluloid starts to degrade and releases gases that cause severe rust in the areas of the blade in closest proximity of the regions of the scales that are degrading. Often you can see a correlation between the light parts of the pattern of the tortoise scales with the areas of rust on the blade.

From the photos, I fear the rust is far enough along that the blade is trashed. The scales definitely need to be discarded and I'm very sorry to say that, given the sentimental value of this razor. It is possible, though unlikely, that with a lot of rust removal there might be enough decent steel left to yield a usable razor. If that is the case, replicate scales can be made. Unfortunately, I think the rust is too far along.

Sorry.

+1 with Utopian's opinion on the cell rot. I've tried to sand a blade in that condition and it fell apart in the area of the edge. Even if you can't use it to shave it is still grandpa's razor and you can keep it as a memento.

I see. I'm not too upset, since there's more to my grandfather's memory than his old razor, however, it would have been nice to see it continue a tradition.
I suppose the best thing I can do is prevent the razor from deteriorating any further.

Utopian, you say the scales need to be scrapped, presumably to stem further cell rot. To be honest, I'm not comfortable trying to do that yet. Is there any other way to prevent further damage? Oiling or something along those lines? I don't want to attempt to save the razor by removing the scales and then breaking it anyway.

If you intend keeping the razor for sentimental purposes, then I would propose the following:

A) Don't bother removing the scales. Although not great, they form the the most display-worthy part of the whole razor. The fact that they are the source of the corrosion on the blade is no longer or real importance. The damage has been done and all we want to do is stabilize the condition of the razor.

B) Remove as much of the rust as you can using a non-abrasive method. That is to say, use no sandpaper or abrasive plastic foams which would further damage any remaining areas of the blade which are still smooth. Use a good grade of metal polish and make the thing as presentable as possible, even allowing for the remaining rusted areas. You might even wish to stabilize the final condition of the blade by giving it a thin coating of a clear protective lacquer. This sort of lacquer is usually used to protect metal objects made of copper, bronze and silver from oxidizing. A tiny droplet of oil at the rear pivot pin should complete the protection.

C) Do not close the razor, nor put it back into a drawer. The best would be to make some sort a small, discrete display frame (without glass) and hang it up - open - for all to view. If there were other articles that went with the razor (box, etc.), you might choose to make a small diorama. The old celluloid scales will continue to slowly decompose, releasing their minute amounts of corrosive gas, but with the blade protected, no longer in close contact with the scales and the razor out where any gases can escape into the general atmosphere of a large room (thus not in the relatively-confined space of a storage box or drawer), this should no longer be a problem.

Displayed in this manner, the razor should remain a worthwhile keepsake for the rest of your life.

I completely agree with ignatz. I was only writing in response to your desire to make it a shaver. Absent that option, there is no point removing the scales.

Well, the only problem with keeping the scales on is the process will continue and it accelerates as it does so in time you will have increasingly severe pitting and in the end the blade will not even be fit for display.

I don't know guy, but I just picked up a Schultz for a couple bucks that loooked liked that Iand the rust came right off with some 400. I plan to soak the handle in some gun stock oil and see what happens. I think wiht a full dismantle and some luv-luv, you vould restore....THat's just me though.

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Originally Posted by Wintchase

I don't know guy, but I just picked up a Schultz for a couple bucks that loooked liked that Iand the rust came right off with some 400. I plan to soak the handle in some gun stock oil and see what happens. I think wiht a full dismantle and some luv-luv, you vould restore....THat's just me though.

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There are three things against this blade: cell rot, HEAVY rust everywhere on the blade, and the fact that it's a hollow ground. If it was a wedge there wouldn't be a risk of losing the blade geometry/removing too much metal to get rid of the rust. From the pictures that rust pitting looks so deep that there would probably not be much a razor left if restored.

The other issue is the desire to keep the original scales. Even if the metal was restored you'd still just have it eaten again by the scales.

+1 to the stabilization to keep it original and sentimental.

Yes, I think I'll try to stabilize it and see what can be done about display. Thank you all for your input; I've been wondering about that blade for quite some time.

Also, although somewhat unrelated, I did some poking around online and it seems that the cause for cell rot is nitric acid released from the celluloid as it breaks down, which is what attacks the steel.

Following up on DocZombie's reply, I, too, went looking around for information on 'celluloid rot' and happened upon this well written article on the subject by a knife collector. It is definitely worth everyone's time to read it.

Here is the link: Celluloid

By the way, I agree with the author that it is the more transparent forms of celluloid that exhibit the most problems where 'rot' is concerned. In my own experience, that 'tortoise shell' scale material seems to be the worst. To be more specific about this, I would say that when cruising the flea markets (at least over on this side of the pond) I almost never see celluloid rot in old razors except when there are those semi-transparent tortoise shell scales. This could be due to the lack of solid pigment fillers, one of the extra chemicals used to color the mix or else (as the author suggests) it might just come down to a questionable manufacturing process.

And here is a link to yet another article which is more broadly aimed at the decomposition of plastics over time. It also mentions celluloid. And I think it appropriate to quote the article directly:

Quote:

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Most modern plastics decay primarily through reaction with oxygen, so are best preserved by sealing them in an oxygen-free atmosphere. Yet cellulose acetate needs exactly the opposite treatment: without good ventilation, the acetic acid vapour released as the plastic ages builds up, accelerating autocatalytic decay.

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Here is the link: Drastic measures save plastic treasures - 16 June 2010 - New Scientist

- Ignatz