Help - Suggestions for removing and reintalling inlays

Hello everyone,

I am seeking any suggestions for removing and reinstalling the inlay shown on this razor.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w...ors/Misc/1.jpg

It appears to be brass and as you can see it was tarnished but I cleaned it up well and would now like to remove it and reinstall it on the new scales I made up.

Would my best option be to dip the scales in acetone until it becomes free?
Do I just let it soak until free or do I gently pry it?

To re-install it on the new scales which are black Micarta,
Is it best to use epoxy applied with a needle or is there a better procedure?
I also was thinking, maybe to affix it with a small amount of Elmer's and then applying a coat of finish or glaze epoxy. This may be where I am leaning.

I appreciate all of your input and thoughts.

Thank you in advance,

Phil

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grump

Hello everyone,

I am seeking any suggestions for removing and reinstalling the inlay shown on this razor.



It appears to be brass and as you can see it was tarnished but I cleaned it up well and would now like to remove it and reinstall it on the new scales I made up.

Would my best option be to dip the scales in acetone until it becomes free?
Do I just let it soak until free or do I gently pry it?

To re-install it on the new scales which are black Micarta,
Is it best to use epoxy applied with a needle or is there a better procedure?
I also was thinking, maybe to affix it with a small amount of Elmer's and then applying a coat of finish or glaze epoxy. This may be where I am leaning.

I appreciate all of your input and thoughts.

Thank you in advance,

Phil

---

I use the acetone bath and it comes loose pretty darn quick "PDQ"
I actually pick at it just a tiny bit, because sometime there is just a tiny something holding it on and you let the old scales dissolve into goo when just a touch with a needle file will pop it loose after a minute or two...

I use epoxy to reset them on everything but wood scales... those I do very different, re-setting with CA then using the same for the finish on the wood...

Thank you, Glen.

Do you use a coating epoxy or adhesive epoxy?

My experience with adhesive Epoxy is that it tends to dry milky due to air bubbles. If I get some to spread out from the inlay it could produce a somewhat less than desirable appearance.

Which Epoxy do you use?

I use the Clear dry 5 minute Epoxy...Adhesive..

BUT

I put some on then use a piece of small metal rod to spread it very thinly on the back, this is the hard part, getting a thin even coat then flipping it and getting hold of just the edges with a set of Micro angled nose pliers...
The real trick is dropping it in the right spot the first try without shaking all over... Because if you move it around too much it looks like "Crappola"
I normally set the inlay on a piece of wax paper while I mess with it...
Use two needle files or two awls to set it in place and hold it in place while the epoxy sets for 5 minutes....

Hint: make sure you polish and clean the inlay BEFORE you remove it from the old scales...

Some fun Huh???

Edit: I have done this with a coating epoxy too, and by putting many coats of finish over the inlays also... It really depends on what material the inlay is going to go on...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I use the Clear dry 5 minute Epoxy...Adhesive..

BUT

I put some on then use a piece of small metal rod to spread it very thinly on the back, this is the hard part, getting a thin even coat then flipping it and getting hold of just the edges with a set of Micro angled nose pliers...
The real trick is dropping it in the right spot the first try without shaking all over... Because if you move it around too much it looks like "Crappola"
I normally set the inlay on a piece of wax paper while I mess with it...
Use two needle files or two awls to set it in place and hold it in place while the epoxy sets for 5 minutes....

Hint: make sure you polish and clean the inlay BEFORE you remove it from the old scales...

Some fun Huh???

Edit: I have done this with a coating epoxy too, and by putting many coats of finish over the inlays also... It really depends on what material the inlay is going to go on...

---

Thank you very much!

This is proving to be my type of project and I am enjoying every aspect of it.

I hope I am up to the challenge of setting it in place.

Good luck! Pics when you're done, or it didn't happen! ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I use the acetone bath and it comes loose pretty darn quick "PDQ"
I actually pick at it just a tiny bit, because sometime there is just a tiny something holding it on and you let the old scales dissolve into goo when just a touch with a needle file will pop it loose after a minute or two...

---

This worked great, I basically took a q-tip and wiped the inlay area with acetone and let it sit a little while, then I wiped it one more time and took a razor blade and slide it under and up it came. I then set it in a bowl and used a little more acetone to clean the rest of the plastic off.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w...layremoval.jpg

Wooo perfect nice job!

Post some pics once you install it in the new scales.

Here is a pic of inlay glued on with 5-min epoxy.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w...gluedinlay.jpg

I took a pin and covered the back with epoxy, set it in place according to the pre-made pencil markings. I used a rolled piece of tape to set it it place and then set it on a piece of wax paper and clamped it for 20 hrs.

The pic above is the result.

Well, it didn't look bad but the remnants of glue and maybe a bit of wax paper needed to be cleaned off for a nice clean look. I took some 1500 grit sandpaper and it cleaned up nicely. The was a bit of glue that was bugging me on the left side so I took the sandpaper in a sawing motion next to the inlay and WHOOOOPS.

The sandpaper slide under the inlay 3/4 of the way :( , with one more quick swipe it came completely off.

What happened? I am not sure, maybe the back wasn't clean enough, maybe not enough glue, it seamed to be completely covered. The epoxy didn't seam to adhere to the micarta.

I am going to have to rethink this. Maybe I will forgo the inlay and just put the blade in the scales, I am not sure at this point.

Result for gluing inlay on the micarta scales - attempt #1 = FAIL

Just some thoughts:

Where did the bond fail?

There seem to be two possibilities.

A) The first possibility is that the inlay popped out with its coating of new epoxy still clinging to it but not to the Micarta.

For what it's worth: When I used to build model RC airplanes, I was told to never try to put a layer of epoxy on top of another layer of epoxy. The general wisdom at that time being that although epoxy bonds wonderfully to other things, it doesn't always bond reliably to itself.

Micarta is multiple layers of cloth bonded together with some sort of resin... usually epoxy. That suggests that trying to use epoxy to bond the inlay to the Micarta would not produce a reliable join. How true this is I cannot say. Epoxy formulations have changed over the years so that what I heard long ago may no longer be true. Nevertheless, you might want to test out the bond strength with some of the epoxy and a scrap of the Micarta.

B) The other possibility is that the inlay popped out totally clean without any of the new epoxy holding on to it.

If this is the case, than the new epoxy couldn't get a good grip on the metal of the inlay.

Was the inlay absolute clean and degreased before you applied the epoxy?

Did you remember to roughen the back of the inlay with some sandpaper?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ignatz

Just some thoughts:

Where did the bond fail?

There seem to be two possibilities.

A) The first possibility is that the inlay popped out with its coating of new epoxy still clinging to it but not to the Micarta.

For what it's worth: When I used to build model RC airplanes, I was told to never try to put a layer of epoxy on top of another layer of epoxy. The general wisdom at that time being that although epoxy bonds wonderfully to other things, it doesn't always bond reliably to itself.

Micarta is multiple layers of cloth bonded together with some sort of resin... usually epoxy. That suggests that trying to use epoxy to bond the inlay to the Micarta would not produce a reliable join. How true this is I cannot say. Epoxy formulations have changed over the years so that what I heard long ago may no longer be true. Nevertheless, you might want to test out the bond strength with some of the epoxy and a scrap of the Micarta.

B) The other possibility is that the inlay popped out totally clean without any of the new epoxy holding on to it.

If this is the case, than the new epoxy couldn't get a good grip on the metal of the inlay.

Was the inlay absolute clean and degreased before you applied the epoxy?

Did you remember to roughen the back of the inlay with some sandpaper?

---

Yes, ( A) the inlay came off with the glue attached to the inlay ) is exactly what happened.

Now, because I want to use the scales I made up, I am rethinking whether I want to use the inlay or keep it tucked away for use on another set of scales in the future.

That just doesn't make sense, maybe Max can pipe in since he works even more with Micarta,,, But that should have worked...

Wax
Polish
Sweat
??????


Anything ???

I'm not surprised this happened.

Is that paper micarta? What did you use on the Micarta scales to achieve your final shine/polish. Did you polish the scales up at all?

Polished paper micarta does not do well with epoxy glue. The part you need to glue the inlay on needs to be sanded down lightly or the glue will not hold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maximilian

I'm not surprised this happened.

Is that paper micarta?

---

Yes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maximilian

What did you use on the Micarta scales to achieve your final shine/polish. Did you polish the scales up at all?

---

I sanded up through 1500 grit, polished with brown bar and then white bar on felt and finished with a wax buff. My goal was to get them as smooth as possible with what I had on hand and I didn't even think twice about the wax or other polish interfering with the bond.:shrug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Polished paper micarta does not do well with epoxy glue. The part you need to glue the inlay on needs to be sanded down lightly or the glue will not hold.

---

Hmmm, the polishing, now I need to rethink this a bit and determine if I want to strip the scales and sand them so I can try the glued inlay again, use them as they are, or come up with another idea. There are many thoughts and idea's coming to mind.

Thank you Glen and Max, your input has been very helpful and this has been a learning experience, not to be forgotten.

My experience is also that epoxy doesn't bond too well with micarta. If you try it again, I would suggest leaving the micarta sanded at no more than 220 grit before you epoxy the inlay in place. Still, I'm not sure if it would work, but if it did, I would then do some refinishing on the scales with the inlay also in place. Be careful if you buff it though.

If you want to rough the surface with sandpaper and not ruin the polish you have already, mask around the part you want to sand with painter's tape. Once you sand your little diamond shape, leave the tape and it will help make sure you don't get epoxy where you don't want it.

Make sure, before you glue, that the surface is rough but clean. Buffing leaves grease behind. I would use alcohol or mineral spirits to clean the surface after sanding. Don't use acetone or naptha, these may dissolve the epoxy in the micarta.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by floppyshoes

If you want to rough the surface with sandpaper and not ruin the polish you have already, mask around the part you want to sand with painter's tape. Once you sand your little diamond shape, leave the tape and it will help make sure you don't get epoxy where you don't want it.

Make sure, before you glue, that the surface is rough but clean. Buffing leaves grease behind. I would use alcohol or mineral spirits to clean the surface after sanding. Don't use acetone or naptha, these may dissolve the epoxy in the micarta.

---

This is a really good idea. I'm not working on a project with inlays now, but I'm sure that'll come in handy if (when) I do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by floppyshoes

Don't use acetone or naptha, these may dissolve the epoxy in the micarta.

---

FWIW I use acetone on micartas and G10s all the time with no ill effects. It's definitely a stronger resin to make commercial micarta and G10.