Can cracked scales be repaired?

I figure somebody has already tried this . . .

I have a newly-bought old Rodgers razor. The blade is in good shape, but one scale is completely cracked at the pivot. [I suspect someone (not me) was a little too enthusiastic about peening the pivot tighter.]

Could I un-pin the blade and glue the crack together with Krazy Glue (using s/s washers inside and outside, for reinforcement) ? I'd be using #0 s/s microfasteners to hold everything together.

Or is that glue joint guaranteed to fail? Or is there something better than Krazy Glue for the job?

Thanks --

Charles

I would not recommend using crazy glue.

Crazy glue works fast, but is much to hard and brittle for a good mechanical bond when something needs to have a wee bit of flex in it. I believe your best bet would be epoxy. Even then it will be a weak spot.

If the scales are celluloid, they can be repaired. Here's how I've done it...and the repair is based on my experiences repairing celluloid fountain pens and repairing upper dentures.

1) unpin the razor
2) on the inside of the scales, use a dremel to open the crack up about 25%-50% through the scales, then make several perpendicular slices through the scale along the crack...This helps to increase the surface area of the repair.
3) chop up a bit of wasted scales and soak them in acetone.
4) place the melted celluloid into the prepared area of the damaged scale.
5) allow to dry and sand smooth.

If you do this on the inside of the scale and use donor celluloid in the same color as the original, the repair is strong and nearly seamless.

hard rubber scales can not be repaired. horn scales can be repaired using epoxy with dry tempura paint mixed into the epoxy. Allow to dry and sand.

I would try gluing and see if it works. You could also try reinforcing the inside surface with a thin layer of glass cloth wetted out with epoxy or metal liner.

Charlie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpcohen1945

I figure somebody has already tried this . . .

I have a newly-bought old Rodgers razor. The blade is in good shape, but one scale is completely cracked at the pivot. [I suspect someone (not me) was a little too enthusiastic about peening the pivot tighter.]

Could I un-pin the blade and glue the crack together with Krazy Glue (using s/s washers inside and outside, for reinforcement) ? I'd be using #0 s/s microfasteners to hold everything together.

Or is that glue joint guaranteed to fail? Or is there something better than Krazy Glue for the job?

Thanks --

Charles

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Krazy glue might work but other tricks come to mind depending on
your likes and depending on the degree of damage to the scales.

To set the stage when I was poor I found a $1000 Kirby vacuum that
someone had fed marbles and gravel. The cast housing was well
cracked and looked worthless. I took some epoxy glue and ten
or was it 20 layers of aluminum foil and repaired it. It cleaned as well as
a new Kirby for the next ten years.

You can take the razor out of the scales by pulling the pin with care
then glue a thin sheet of brass on the inside and also on the outside.
Do both sides of the scales so it looks purposeful and artful.

Then pin the razor again with a new brass pin. Perhaps with stacked
and slightly domed washers (for spring).

The inside of the brass against the wood should be well roughened for the glue to
grab well.

Another very good glue might be the foaming urethane glue called "Gorilla Glue".

But a lot depends on the nature of the damage and the material.
A cracked wood scale that had been finished with
super glue might well be repaired with either gorilla
or superglue.

Micarta is layers of 'stuff' that is glued with epoxy or another
near transparent glue/ resin. You can add layers on the inside
and outside of your scales saturated with resin and when
pressed down flat and fully cured sand down and use. Perhaps
leaving all the layers intact at the pin end but sand the majority of
the scale down to the base material.

But if you do not have glue and 'stuff' in the work shop
shop for replacement scales on many of the sponsors
and also in the classified.

Much depends on how 'purdy' you want it to be,
how creative you are... and what the cracked scales are
made of and where you are on the globe.

Some things I have learned ...

Celluloid cannot be "Glued" it can be "Welded" as Red already pointed out above. The bad news is the all celluloid isn't the same, and that trick will either work great, or fall apart in 2 seconds :(

Horn, Ivory, Bone, and even Tortoise can be "glued" with varying degrees of success... The repair will show..

Bakelite, Vucanite and hard rubber compounds, I have not been able to repair yet,,,

My general rule of thumb is this

Wedge end cracks, yep most likely it can work
Center scale cracks, MMMMMMmmmm maybe but doubtful
Pivot end cracks, nope ain't gonna hold

I am sure somebody has manged to fix a set here or there, again this is in general what I have found..

ps: I do not consider a huge ugly gob of glue heaped on a crack a repair, that is an insult to the razor :D

My motto is very simple. I don't rerpair cracked or broken scales. I don't care where it's broken or cracked either. A. it will show and it will drive you nuts in the long run as you know it's there and B. eventually it will crack again (especially at the pivot side). The toe side area would maybe be the only place I would epoxy/sand flush a tear or crack if needed.

Against Glenn and Max's good advice, I'm going to try and fix it.

I think a short brass liner _might_ be stiff enough to keep stress off the joint. And it keeps the outside of the scales 'clean'. I'll put an oversize washer, bent to fit the outside curve of the scales, around the pin to spread the forces and give the glue more area to grab.

With my skills, I _cannot_ make a neat, small fiberglass repair. And the idea of wrecking the _look_ of the scales, by wrapping stuff around the joint and saturating it in resin, doesn't appeal to me.

I'll report back, with photos. Thanks to everyone.

Charles

PS -- next time I see a vintage razor with brass "decorations" around its pins, I'll know that they're structural reinforcements. The old guys weren't dumb.

I started a repair of this nature yesterday on a Boker shoulderless french point razor where the rear scale was cracked completely through at the pivot, clean
crack straight across and centered on the pin. It had to have been that way for many years as the hairline was completely black. Removed the pin. Soap and a toothbrush did nothing to remove the black which covered both halves. I was afraid of using anything stronger to clean for fear of distortion or losing some of the scale material and not having a tight match up of the pieces.
I slipped a piece of saran wrap under the damaged area and used Gorilla brand superglue covering both walls of the crack put some saran wrap on top of the scale and clamped the scale cross ways. When that dried (nothing stuck to the saran wrap) I laid a bead of the super glue fairly thick across the crack and let that dry. Light filing, and very light sanding just to get the bead down flush
and then 3200 cloth and 12000 cloth polished it right up. Re-pinned the razor with brass and domed washers, tighter than I usually would to test the theory
and it is like a rock. (so far) will use it as part of my rotation and see how it
stands up. Today after a shave it stropped perfectly. Sadly you can still see the black hairline crack on the light scales. But I did not want to lose the Boker scales because of the silver inlay across the front side.

I am not a pro, but I sometimes you can get lucky on repairing..I did this to a Griffin carbo magnetic two years ago...It split clean in half by the third pin...I super glued it and it has held since..Saying that, I tried to repair a friends engels the same way and it didn't take..So, it can't hurt to try.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lz6

. . .
I slipped a piece of saran wrap under the damaged area and used Gorilla brand superglue covering both walls of the crack put some saran wrap on top of the scale and clamped the scale cross ways. . . .

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"Gorilla-brand superglue" (water-clear cyanoacrylate glue), or "Gorilla Glue" (brownish polyurethane glue, foaming or non-foaming) ?

The Gorilla Glue (polyurethane glue) sticks to _anything_, and is very forgiving -- takes hours to set. The cyanoacrylate glues (the original Krazy Glue, etc) are more difficult to work with -- take minutes to set.

It sounds like you have a sound repair -- congratulations! I hope I do as well.

Charles

I'd certainly give it a shot, but not be too hopeful. I've had very poor luck repairing cracked scales, and I've "repaired" a fair number. Now, I don't even try -- I just make new scales. But, try it and you might get lucky. And, until you try, you'll never know.

Gorilla Super Glue (cyanoacrylate) just found it a few days ago, could be a new market item for them. I am guessing some other additive than the usual super glue, seemed to be more flexible than brittle. Took several hours to set but the scale material may have had something to do with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpcohen1945

"Gorilla-brand superglue" (water-clear cyanoacrylate glue), or "Gorilla Glue" (brownish polyurethane glue, foaming or non-foaming) ?

The Gorilla Glue (polyurethane glue) sticks to _anything_, and is very forgiving -- takes hours to set. The cyanoacrylate glues (the original Krazy Glue, etc) are more difficult to work with -- take minutes to set.

It sounds like you have a sound repair -- congratulations! I hope I do as well.

Charles

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I used "Thick Gel" off-brand Krazy Glue. There are washers on both sides of the joint, and the joint itself isn't clean -- the broken piece is slightly mis-aligned. It's the glue between the washers (inside and out) and the plastic that's holding everything together.

The nut is screwed tight enough to give enough tension so the razor closes centered in the scales. I don't want to push it . . . <g>

I'll see how many shaves this is good for.

Charles

I've fixed a few cracks/splits in scales using some of the methods mentioned in this thread, except I used Glaze Coat epoxy to do it. That stuff is practically liquid acrylic.

I did a razor that had the pivot cracked, scales are ivory though and I used a single layer of fiberglass to line the inside of them to help re-inforce the scales and hold them together.

That was 2 years ago and the repair is still looking and working great, I haven't had any problems.

Thread for it is here: http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ry-repair.html

Thank you! I never thought of putting a _complete_ layer of fiberglass on the scales.

Quote:

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I did a razor that had the pivot cracked, scales are ivory though and I used a single layer of fiberglass to line the inside of them to help re-inforce the scales and hold them together.

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What thickness (or weight) of FG cloth did you use?

Considering how strong FG is, it becomes structural -- the remaining ivory (or plastic, in my case) would just be decorative.

If and when my repair fails, I'll re-do it as you have.

Charles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bevansmw

I did a razor that had the pivot cracked, scales are ivory though and I used a single layer of fiberglass to line the inside of them to help re-inforce the scales and hold them together.

That was 2 years ago and the repair is still looking and working great, I haven't had any problems.

Thread for it is here: http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ry-repair.html

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This repair was done very well, the razors came out looking really nice too...
I honed these and got to see them up close and in hand, it was very good work...

:tu

Depending on the material, adding a bit of MEK to the epoxy will often give it enough bite to hold well on acrylic and some celluloids. See if ta drop of MEK or MethyleneChloride /Model maker's liquid plastic cement will melt the inside of a scale. If so, this may work. There is also a Devcon epoxy in the doubled syringe bubble pack for plastic repair in many hardware stores...Stinks terrible but holds well.
~Richard

I just used the standard stuff I found at home depot, the cloth one with the tighter knit, I think they had some looser mesh stuff too. Not sure what the weight was

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpcohen1945

Thank you! I never thought of putting a _complete_ layer of fiberglass on the scales.



What thickness (or weight) of FG cloth did you use?

Considering how strong FG is, it becomes structural -- the remaining ivory (or plastic, in my case) would just be decorative.

If and when my repair fails, I'll re-do it as you have.

Charles

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