Bluing Steel

So I've been thinking and considering trying it out.

So, I noticed that my old blades with considerable patina seem to hold up better vs water. Less water marks, no scratches. I then thought about guns, as I'm purchasing one.... Their steel is a little bit diffrent than that of our blades, but most guns are blued, makes them less reflective, more resilient to scratches as well. Its a process which partly protects the steel by oxidizing the iron present, but it does not take up any more volume than the iron itself... unlike rust which takes up more volume than the original. I really dont want to explain all this wrong do the wiki is below.

Bluing (steel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Have any of you guys tried this? I'm right now searching for some junk blades to see how it looks....

Also, if this is possible, this means you could also change the whole color of a blade, make it brown, green, doing this with chemicals means you could also control where the patina is, you could just dip the spine, or the tang, and keep the blade face mirrored.... hone past the patina for a fresh edge....


also, i was reading about use sulfuric acid to remove some oxidation.... I'm not sure how i feel about that... anyone tried it?

Hi BigBlue
My experience only includes working knives (bushcraft/carving), not razors, but I would certainly try and blue one!

A bladesmith I know, Götz Breitenbücher, told me that it's possible to blue steel by boil it in water with hops flowers ;). I tried, but it works better by just cutting a roast pork. I know, that would be sacrilege, but just putting the razor inside a slid in a newly roast pork would do the job.
Using gun blue would of course be ideal... I think that my inventiveness would demand me to achieve the same result... cheaper ;)

I don't know any chemicals that would turn the blade other colors than blue gray. If you can recommend me any, it would be nice!

Good luck with the projekt and best regards
Kristian

They sell bluing kits in gun stores. We've discussed this before and from what I remember you first have to really clean the blade and if you use the cold bluing kits the results can be spotty. The hot kits are better if the razor can tolerate the temp and I know this has been discussed before also and I don't remember how high the temp has to go. I think the biggest issue is getting consistent results.

Maybe I'm way of base and bluing is a modern process.... but why have I never seen a blued blade before? Does it do something bad to the blade?

Birchwood Casey has a new improved version called "Super Blue" it works very very well on Carbon Steel Straight Razors...oh yeah and costs about the exact same as their older version..

TBS is dead right the steel must me freshly cleaned as in with a buffer or at least sandpaper or the finish will look terrible... Warm steel and warm solution, (Body temp warm) works better than cold also... you can adjust the color quite a bit....

There are very very few Blued Blades, there are quite a few Blued Tangs/Spines in the vintage market...

I have tried the Birchwood Casey "Super Blue". Here are a few pictures of the results.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...tml#post595124

Here's a thread where it was discussed check out the pics from spazola wow!!

This recipie is from a knife forum and was provided by Brian Vanspeybroecka a knife maker

Starting with clean steel (degrease and clean with alcohol) and handle with clean hands or vinyl gloves to keep oil from contaminating the surface. Make a simple solution of hydrogen peroxide (the stuff they sell at the drug store for 99 cents), table salt, and vinegar. Put about 4 ounces of peroxide in a glass jar and microwave it until it is hot but not boiling. Add salt and stir and then reheat. Continue heating and adding salt until the solution is saturated....you can tell because the salt stops dissolving and starts to accumulate at the bottom of the glass jar. When saturated add about an ounce of vinegar (what kind does not matter) and pour the solution into a spray bottle. I use empty and very clean butter spray bottles.

Take the steel fitting (clean, remember?) and run it under hot tap water till it's hot. Remove it, and then spray it liberally with the hot solution. It will steam, fizz, foam and drip so don't do this over the living room carpet or your wife's clean bedspread. You will see red rust appear immediately and as the foam dies down spray it again and again. After a few spray cycles rinse it under hot tap water, brush it with a soft toothbrush (not *your* toothbrush...use someone else's) and then run it under hot tap water again. And then repeat the spray and foam routine until it is literally covered with a thick coating of red rust. Maybe about 10 cycles and maybe it takes about 12 to 15 minutes.

Then place the fitting into a pan, fill it with water, and set it on the stove. Heat until the water boils and then boil it about 10 or 15 minutes (I use distilled water) or until the fitting is black. Pull it out of the water (use your fingers! If you don't get burned it ruins the whole thing) and while it's still warm rub it with mineral oil or Renaissance wax. The wax will make it shiny...the oil will evaporate and leave a cool, dull black antique look.

It's done. Rub it with a soft cloth to remove any loose rust. This procedure will rust without pitting and the surface will be slightly matte looking. And I was just kidding about the burnt finger part. Use a stick or someone else's finger.

Cold bluing has a reputation for the lack of wear properties.

A relatively safe method of bluing steel is called 'rust blue'.

Rust blue has good wear properties and is relatively easy to apply.

Also, a mirror finish is actually a detriment to the bluing process.

A relatively rough surface is necessary for a good blued finish.

I worked as an apprentice gunsmith for a short period of time and what I learned about bluing is that it is actually a form of controlled rust. I would personally try to avoid cold bluing we found that it would corrode and break down faster than hot bluing.

A blue'd finish is only as good as the polish on the steel, a highly polished blade will still look polished after the bluing process and a sandblasted finish would make the metal nonreflective.

My favorite blue was called mitre blue. If you go to your local gunsmith I'm sure he would blue your razor for cheap.

True rust bluing is done with nitric acid,I restore high grade american shotguns and can tell you a set of barrels takes at the least 3 weeks to do.
all has to be ultra clean,I boil parts in a borax soap solution,rinse in Dist,water.
apply the nitric,it turns to rust when dry,card it off with a fine wire brush,start all over again,takes about 60 applications to get a deep real Blue.
It offers zero protection to the metal.pretty as hell tho alot of work.

Wow, I go to bed for a few hours and miss a great thread unfolding. I dont have much to add at this point but I will show a couple of pics. The first one is with 2 applications of Birchwood Casey Super Blue, The second was done with Hot Cider Vinegar, which was then neutralised with ammonia.
Grant

I've rust blued a few, and I like both the appearance and the protection the bluing gives. Never cold blued a whole blade, but I have cold blued tangs and such, I think cold bluing is fine for that, and I think it gives some rust protection for the tang. Theres a recipe for a low temp hot blue on here. Never tried that, but others have.

Heres the low temp one--

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...g-recipie.html

I'm going to try that one day.

Thread I started some time back--

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ed-blades.html

As mentioned, biggest problem with rust bluing is cleaning and keeping it clean. You need to sand them to give the rust a place to grab, then completely degrease and handle with gloves until the process is over. Any grease will mess you up, including from fingerprints.

Well, actually, your biggest problem might be humidity if you live someplace where its low. You could build one of those bluing cabinets they talk about, but I'd just do it in the kitchen and boil some water every few hours. Or use a humidifier.

So.... it offers no protection?

I feel that if the surface is all used up it must be harder to penitrate.

That is not to say it should be un-oiled... but maybe a little more lax on it.


I say this because why do you reblue a gun due to wear? I always thought it was so that the rust would not spread?

Oh and by the way that birchwood is friggin amazing looking.... now I really want to do that to a blade.


Might it also hide pitting?

this was just what I was looking for, now off to the shop

make sure you get before and after pictures!!!!!!!

If you have a tumbler you might want to try my experiment. http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ina-hours.html I just used water for it, but the premise is the same as rust bluing and I'm sure that I could try other chemicals in the tumbler for different colors.

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Originally Posted by BigBlue

So.... it offers no protection?

I feel that if the surface is all used up it must be harder to penitrate.

That is not to say it should be un-oiled... but maybe a little more lax on it.


I say this because why do you reblue a gun due to wear? I always thought it was so that the rust would not spread?

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Actually it offers little if any protection against rust and corrosion as true bluing is a form of controlled rust.
It is used because it is traditional,to die for when done in the oldworld manner,and it cuts glare on fowling pieces.
Thats why you almost never see Bluing on military arms,they are parkerized,Plasma coated or anodized today.
What would be to die for would be a razor color case hardened in the old way,but thats a major undertaking only a few people know how to do today.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

What would be to die for would be a razor color case hardened in the old way,but thats a major undertaking only a few people know how to do today.

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Why do it the hard way?
Kasenit Surface Hardening Compound 1 lb - MidwayUSA

This seems simple... and cheap....just getting the heat right.....

But does this not seem rather close to just folding steel to make something like damascus?

Your just adding more and more carbon to the skin of the steel... I think this would be great, but why not just make the blade from a high carbon steel? I now it would be harder to hone... but it would hold its edge for quite a while...


or maybe I don't get something about case hardening...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigBlue

Why do it the hard way?
Kasenit Surface Hardening Compound 1 lb - MidwayUSA

This seems simple... and cheap....just getting the heat right.....

But does this not seem rather close to just folding steel to make something like damascus?

Your just adding more and more carbon to the skin of the steel... I think this would be great, but why not just make the blade from a high carbon steel? I now it would be harder to hone... but it would hold its edge for quite a while...


or maybe I don't get something about case hardening...

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Not the same,case hardening with colors is done in a furnace,packed with animal matter,teeth,hooves,bone,take many days to get the colors correct,look here:TurnbullMfg. Co. for firearm restoration of antique guns - antique revolvers, antique pistols - including Winchester rifles, Marlin rifles, Parker shotguns, Colt revolvers, and more

So check this out!... now I know what to do with my oil!

"I often use mild steel found around my shop to make some minor parts, and depend upon a hardening of the surface to save the part from wearing excessively or rusting easily. Mild (low-cost) steel can be made fairly rust-free by a quick, cheap method, utilizing the used oil drained from your car. (This is also a good excuse not to be in a rush to take the drained oil to the recycling place until you’re good and ready.) The dirtier the oil, the better, as this is a rich source of carbon. I heat the part to a cherry red and quench it in the carbon-blessed oil, maybe repeating the process several times until I have a good blackening much like the carbonizing on camshafts and other parts of an engine. This surface is reasonably hard, but more importantly, holds up under the 96 percent average humidity found in the Southeast Gulf Coast of Texas. It simply won’t rust."


Case Hardening with Kasenit

I snagged it off this site.


I got a torch.. and I just changed my oil... still sitting in the collecting pot.


....I might try this on a craptastic blade.....

How to Harden Steel With Motor Oil | eHow.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Not the same,case hardening with colors is done in a furnace,packed with animal matter,teeth,hooves,bone,take many days to get the colors correct,look here:TurnbullMfg. Co. for firearm restoration of antique guns - antique revolvers, antique pistols - including Winchester rifles, Marlin rifles, Parker shotguns, Colt revolvers, and more

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You know simpleman had a bunch of bones and might want to try this on the knuckler!


http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...s-could-i.html

Also found this for making a forge

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/v...p?f=39&t=46806

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigBlue

You know simpleman had a bunch of bones and might want to try this on the knuckler!


http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...s-could-i.html

Also found this for making a forge

Zombie Squad • View topic - Make your own tools: simple forging setup

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My dad was a gunsmith and did restoration work for Abercrombies back in the day,as I recall,he used a tiny electric kiln to do small parts,was alot of voodoo envolved in the process,differant animal parts would create differant colors,sure was pretty as you never knew what colors or patterns you would get.DO NOT TRY THIS IN YOUR WIFES OVEN:)