Crack in blade edge?

Any way to save a new (NOS) razor that has a hairline crack in the blade at the edge? I got this razor in wonderful condition from an ebay purchase, and not for much money. Neither he, nor I looking at the pictures found that crack. When I got the razor and held it up in the light just right I saw the slight distortion along the blade edge. Magnification shows a hairline crack kind of in the shape of a ( but a little more curve at the top back toward the toe. It was an A. FIEST & Cie. Solingen Germany, model "Monterna" in very fancy italics on the Left tang, along with Fully Hollow Ground, under the name Monterna.
He felt bad about it, sent me another razor, a Geo. Wostenholm & Sons to replace it, so that was very decent of him. I told him this razor is basically new, with no hone marks at all, and does not look like it was ever honed or stropped. VERY thin blade that starts nearly all the way up the blade close to the spine, and highly polished, ALL of it. I think his Father, who passed away and left him the collection of over 100 razors, probably had it and never used it for this reason.
Is there a way to perhaps add super-glue to both sides, or J.B. Weld or some low temp 95C silver based solder (melts with a cigarette lighter) to the spot where the crack is and stabilize the crack?
http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/misc/r...rna_crackL.jpg
This is a picture of the whole razor, but forgive the off hue. I used the wrong setting on my camera, and managed to fix it a bit with Photoshop.
http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/misc/r...r/monterna.jpg

You are asking if gluing or welding a tear/crack on a straight razor is feasible? Unless you want to scar yourself for life I would nicely use that razor as a display item. I'm sorry for your loss. It does seem to be around 5/8 so removing the crack is not an option too. Doable probably but you'll end up in the stabilizer and with maybe a 4/8 or 11/16. Hard to say how far up the crack goes.

How far does the crack extend into the blade?

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Originally Posted by adbuett

How far does the crack extend into the blade?

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You and Max were curious about this, so was Glen in a different thread. Here is a better picture, taken outside yesterday. I had to do a bit of photoshop to give it a cleaner look for posting. It looks like a longitutal crack or such near the toe, but that is just reflection or other, not an imperfection.

http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/misc/r...erna_crack.jpg

I used my digital calipers and measured from the edge of the blade to the top of the crack. That distance is 0.086" .

This is what I would do if I were in your position. You will need to make your own decision as to what to do after considering the possible outcomes, i.e. extending the crack or chipping the blade. Because I don't believe in owning razors that I can't shave with, I would go about trying to hone out the crack. Depending on what the crack actually looked like (It's hard to tell from photos, even though you got a better one) I would either breadknife the blade until I got past the crack, or just hone with tape, to protect the spine, until it is gone. Take this with a grain of salt as I have never actually dealt with this problem before. Also, I would say removing by hand-methods is the safest avenue since power tools may lengthen the crack. Epoxy would probably be no good just because of the nature of the crack you're dealing with: small, on a cutting edge, etc. The solder I'm not sure about though.

The blade edge is very thin. Bread-knifing by had would take an inordinate amount of time. The crack extends all the way though and as you run the blade edge across your thumbnail and watch the ripple effect as you move down, you get to this spot and it really shows. The crack goes up and does a curve back toward the rear of the blade.

The blade width from top of spine to cutting edge is 0.674" 5/8 = 0.625" Now if if I get rid of the crack at the very top, the blade will now be about 0.588" width, larger than a 4/8 = 0.500" , but will be under the 5/8 (0.625") by about 0.037" or as it reads at Boeing, where I used to work, 37 thousandth, or 88 thousandth wider than a 4/8 razor. That wold be a shame, since this is a very small spine area that quickly thins to the width of a DE blade most of the way down the blade. If it were not for the flaw, it might be a "singing" blade.?? Possible?
http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/misc/r...nterna_end.jpg

Forget about any kind of weld/solder or glue to try and fix this.
Welds are done at temperatures that will most likely blow the temper on the blade. Solder is not hard so not going to work at all, glue same as solder. I am not sure what low temperature welding techniques available but I think it is not going to be worth the time and money to try and fix this way.
Try hone it away and if it works it works if not you are not loosing anything by trying.

Well, as far as the solder goes, what I have has no lead, cadmium, or antimony in it. Mostly silver based, good enough for food industry, tough at 22,000 PSI Tensile strenght and a cigarette lighter was used on a demo when we bought it at the winery. I held the ends of a paper clip together as the guy soldered the meeting parts with just a cigarette lighter. Never burned my fingers. Just a thought...

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Originally Posted by Gibbs

Well, as far as the solder goes, what I have has no lead, cadmium, or antimony in it. Mostly silver based, good enough for food industry, tough at 22,000 PSI Tensile strenght and a cigarette lighter was used on a demo when we bought it at the winery. I held the ends of a paper clip together as the guy soldered the meeting parts with just a cigarette lighter. Never burned my fingers. Just a thought...

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Isn't silver soldering high temp soldering? It is a form of brazing as far as I know. Also a lighter flame I think is in the 600-800 C which will blow the temper of the blade too.
I personally would try and hone out the crack to see if it works.

It is not a "silver" solder, but does not have lead, cadmium, zinc, etc that would be taboo for the food industry. Melts at 395 F, called Cronanbraze(TM) 92C and a tensile strength of 22,000 PSI. It was designed for high strength where low temp was required for melting. In other words, you couldn't use it in your oven to solder something as an oven would easily get hot enough to cause it to melt. Their list of advantages (Cronaton Corp.) Five times as strong as solder, Lowest heat factor needed for application. Stuff is kind of on the expensive side, and hard to find. 1/16" x 9' is what we have and it was something like 32.00 for that little coil. They say it's suitable for all dissimilar metals like chrome plated steels, Stainless Steel, copper, brass, and bronze.

well i agree with the guys, try to hone it out and if nothing else you have an excuse to get a new hone or two to do the job with,


best of luck to you,

deerhunter.

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Originally Posted by Deerhunter1995

well i agree with the guys, try to hone it out and if nothing else you have an excuse to get a new hone or two to do the job with,


best of luck to you,

deerhunter.

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Don't need a new hone, have a 1" X 30" Harbor Freight belt sander. Don't get worried. I was showing another forum member how cool the blade is even when using the belt sander. I'm not hoggin' out the blades with 120grit. I have 600, 800, 1000 grit German belts. 1K belt with the finger on the blade "LIGHT" touch doesn't even get warm enough to ...well... get warm. But, I can take some serious metal down with it in a lot less time than with a stone.

It sounds like you really want to try this, so go for it. The worse that will happen is you will still have a non-shaving display piece.

Well... I hope its the worse that will happen.

If you are going to try to salvage this blade, I would go with the 600 grit belt and take it down until you are past the crack. As Max has said, you'll probably just end up with a 4/8 or 3/8 blade if you don't wreck the temper.

Other than that, save the handle and pitch the blade.

Have fun,

Lynn

Taking it down to past the cack is probaby the best ideas. Even if I were to successfully put in solder there at the crack it would always be a few thousandth wider-stiffer there than anywhere along the blade edge. Scotch tape on both sides should stabilize the crack during the removal of metal.

Geez Vern, you spent more time talking about this project on all the forums then it would have taken to just try it...

Go embrace the challenge and get it started already :) you could have been shaving this razor by now LOL

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Geez Vern, you spent more time talking about this project on all the forums then it would have taken to just try it...

Go embrace the challenge and get it started already :) you could have been shaving this razor by now LOL

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Busted! I GUESS it doesn't hurt to get other opinions...

You could try to hone/sand it out, but given how much metal there is to take off and how much it would eat into the stabilizer and how much time it would take, I wouldn't bother myself. Too many other razors out there.

Yes, other's opinion are alway welcome. There are many folks that are in other forums besides here, and no all the memeber is other forums vist this forum. Always nice to see ideas and feedback on plans and suggestions. FWIW, I did try the low temp solder and it did stabillize the blade there, but even though it was honed and shavable, it was not flexible there and as such, running a blade edge down my thumbnail, (as Glen had posted in another forum) it came to that spot and didn't give like the rest of the blade. May or may not give issues, but I tend to think uniformity in the edge is the key to a good razor's ability to shave. So, when I do have the time, I might just work at taking the edge up that 0.085" to see what it would be like. Very thin blade all along from near the top of the spine all the way down. I think I can keep it out of the stabilizer, even if I eliminate some of the edge.

And, yes, there are lots other blades. Some 20 other shave ready razors are in my drawer. This is "not" the one and only, but a challenge, nonetheless. The guy who sold and sent me this blade was so gracious that he sent not only another razor to take it's place, but 2! Both 5/8 Geo. Wolstenholm & Sons Sheffield England razors, with the little pipe on one side and says "SUPERB" under the pipe (both). One blonde plastic, the other blue with some light streaking in the plastic handles. Very clean, and shiny, with jimps on top and bottom.

I'm afraid I may be ridiculed for this, but could you just remove that piece of blade and then sharpen. The crack looks like it may be ready to circle back down to the blade edge making a "notch" in the blade edge. You could then soften the corners of the notch and sharpen and shave normally......only with the notch in the blade. If you don't like it then you could just grind/sand the blade down like you originally planned. Jus wonderin....
Example below.
http://s728.photobucket.com/albums/w...usaderwithgat/


HLS Jim

Well, the other night, I used the belt sander at 800 grit and a witness line on the blade and took down the whole of the blade to the point close to the top of the crack, where it curls back toward the heel. Then I put on the 1000 grit belt and finished getting rid of the crack. I held it at more than the angle that you would use to hone with, with the spine about 1/8" away from the belt getting material, and not setting a bevel. At the 1000 grit level, I taped it, and set a bevel, and touched it with the leather 1" x 30" belt. Cut all the hairs you want off your arm at that point. After that, I refreshed the tape, and took to it with a series of slip water hones. Finished up on a C12K wide hone. I shaved with it last night. Does well. pops hairs anywhere along the edge.

Now, before you get excited, the 800 and 1000 grit belts were done so light, 1 pass then wait a few seconds and repeat, that at no time did the blade even get hot enough to, well hot enough to feel warm. It's quick, took about 15 minutes before I started in on the water hones. My bare finger was on the blade the entire time as I steadied it going across the finer belts. No heat, so I would be safe to say, no temper lost. When I rinse my blades in water the water would heat them about 2x hotter than what I got on the belts. Pics of the NOS A. Fiest and Company Solingen Germany "Monterna".

http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/misc/r...na-R_after.jpg

http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/misc/r...erna_after.jpg

I checked it out with my transparent T ruler and on the 1/8 side markings it is between 4/8 and 5/8, and just a little ways down from 5/8 right now.

HLS, blades flex to some degree. This one does quite a bit because of the thin blade and how long it's thin. Two sharp blades would not flex at the same time, in unison, and it would be a dangerous proposition to have 2 different flexing blades cutting on your face at the same time. One might cut and the other might dig. I could have done what I did with a Mulcuto razor I have that I got at the local antique store for about 3.00 and simply eliminate the notch AND all the rest of the blade back from the notch and then dull the whole lenght, heels to the actual cutting edge. That worked. I have shaved with this little blade a few times and it is really impressive for lack of pull. Also, it is only cutting a little wider on your face than most 2-blade disposable razors.

http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/misc/r...to_revised.jpg

Top part is a mess with pitting. I used tape to hone it. I also cut jimps in the top and bottom when I had the blade out before putting it in a schale from a broken Butcher & Wade razor I bought at the antique store just for the handles. Honed up nice, though, as looking though 20X thre is no nicks or pitting right at the blade edge. Handy little razor around your lips and chin.

Excellent point about the two parts of the blade flexing....................that never crossed my mind.

Thanks, Jim

That belt sander ought to get the blade hot enough to solder the crack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pitch the blade.

Sorry, Jerry, it doesn't. I've honed it to 12K and stropped it and shaved with it twice now. Still sharp, no metal discoloration. Blade maybe got as hot as 80F during the take down. How hot's water?

BTW, to Lynn, Glen and others, the blade is now a 9/16. Wasn't quite able to leave enough for 5/8 but it's wider by about a 1/16 than the 4/8, so has to be around 9/16 blade now. I run the blade down my thumbnail, as per Glen, and see the ripple effect, heel to toe. Blade is now fine.

There is another thing you can do -do nothing just hone and try shave with it some time it's work!
I had a similar problem with my BENGALL and it did work, still shave with it sometimes.