Triple stacked pins

I've been getting into restoration recently and I've cleaned up about 5 or 6 blades by hand.

Five of them are going to get new custom scales (horn and bone on the way! :)) and brass pins with single washers. I've found a company here in the UK that sells 1/16" brass rod and the washers so I'm good to go there.

The last blade is a great W&B Celebrated Hollow Ground which has lovely looking scales. I've managed to unpin the scales and clean the blade up so it looks great, but in the process I've lost the lovely triple stacked washers it had.

What size of washers does one use for that triple stacked look? And is there anywhere in the UK to get them? I've been looking but no joy so far.

I'd really like to put the triple stacked washers back on this blade as it looked great with them and the lovely horn scales nicely worn in.

Thanks folks! :)

Microfasteners carries them but shipping etc: would be crazy so If I were you I would ask a "Friend" that lives on this side of the pond to order extra when "your friend" needs them and mail them to ya...

How many ya need????

Thanks Glen! :)

I'll drop you a PM.

Thanks matey, that's great. :bow

I know it's personal preference, but I would highly recommend you check out what three stacked washers looks and feels like before you pin the razor. To me, and maybe only to me, the mountain of metal sticking off the scale is just too much. But I'm sure there are others that love the effect. You may not know till you handle it in person, though.

Hmmmm That's odd Dylan because I have found them to be almost identical to the mountain of metal that sticks out from the side of a Vintage W&B, but even then, there is more difference because the Vintage washers has been mashed down somewhat over the years but the triple stack hasn't ...I think they are still within 100th of an inch though if you measured, even inaccuratly... In fact that was what the triple stack was designed to emulate,, Or when you take the time to spin yer own, again designed to copy the old Bullseye/Beehive washers I am sure that some would disagree but that's just me...
Now if you just like the look of the old vintage washers that would be a personal preference in itself...

You can make your own too.

What I do to 'taylor' my washers is put a couple on a nail and put them horizontaly in the vice.
I then take my dremmel with a sanding drum attachment and lightly apply it to the edge of the washers.
They will start to spin and they will slowly decrease in diameter, so you can go small, medium and large....simples!

Now that is a good idea :tu

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hmmmm That's odd Dylan because I have found them to be almost identical to the mountain of metal that sticks out from the side of a Vintage W&B, but even then, there is more difference because the Vintage washers has been mashed down somewhat over the years but the triple stack hasn't ...I think they are still within 100th of an inch though if you measured, even inaccuratly... In fact that was what the triple stack was designed to emulate,, Or when you take the time to spin yer own, again designed to copy the old Bullseye/Beehive washers I am sure that some would disagree but that's just me...
Now if you just like the look of the old vintage washers that would be a personal preference in itself...

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I was just voicing my own opinion, that it's best to see if you really like it before doing the pinning. That was the only point of my first post.

I'm not sure what washers everyone has available, but I'm basing my statements on the 0 wide brass, 0 stainless, and 0 brass (biggest to smallest OD) that I have available to me (from microfasteners). Comparing to vintage washers, the stack of three is markedly taller than the various vintage, bullseye washers I have around. But that is not the only difference. The vintage ones that I have are more than 1.5 the diameter of the 0 wide. So now you can probably see why I said mountain of metal - the stacked 0w, 0, and 0 is narrower at the base and taller, making it much steeper off the scale, like a mountain. The vintage ones are wider and shorter, more like a hill. Just as significant, to my touch at least, is that the vintage washers are nicely rounded; the "steps" from one ring to the next are rounded and gradual. With stacked brass, the steps are each bigger and have much harder edges, even after I buff them.

Yes, these are all small differences, but with such small measurements, the %'s are not so small. And given that I run my hands over the pivot washers a lot while handling razors (honing, stropping), and since I put my razors into a lined roll, I find these differences to be very evident. (I would also be careful if you use coffins to store razors, because the change in width at both the wedge and pivot can prevent razors from fitting if the clearance was close to start.)

Maybe all that is ONLY because the vintage washers are smushed, rubbed, worn, etc, but that is why I like them; they are nice and rounded, and they feel good in my hands.

But again, all this is only MY OPINION based on MY experiences and the materials I have available to me. None of this is universal, and it is by no means truth. It just leads me to the idea that it may be a good idea to try it out before pinning; similar to "measure twice, cut once."

Hi my name is Dylan, and I like the Vintage ones better I think says it all....:)

Hi my name is Glen and I like the new stacked ones better...


PS: Stu I have about 200 of the old ones in a baggie on the bench I'll send ya some of those too :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hi my name is Dylan, and I like the Vintage ones better I think says it all....:)

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Except that was not what I was saying in my first post. I was saying "I would recommend you try before you pin to see what YOU like."

so...what sizes work best if someone wanted to try more than one washer?

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Originally Posted by tumtatty

so...what sizes work best if someone wanted to try more than one washer?

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Micro Fasteners - Hobbyists Source - Locknuts - Washers - Machine Screws - Fasteners - Rivets - Wood Screws

order
#0W Brass
#0 SS
#0 Brass

You have to stack these correctly also to get the Beehive effect, dump a few of the washers on your workbench, note that one side is flat, and one side is rounded,,, Flat side goes toward the scale rounded side goes up...

My own experience is that three stacked washers are significantly taller than a vintage 'bullseye' washer...

It's all personal preference, but there is definitely a marked difference between the two.

Hi, my name is neil and I'm an al... sorry, wrong meeting - and I like both types!

Those old washers also had another, less obvious point - the pin was sometimes around 1/8th of an inch or so thick - a bit of a pain when you remove the washer and find a gaping great hole in the scale! I have been refurbing quite a few of these recently, and have had to stock up on wider pinning rods. They take a fair bit of walloping to mushroom the ends, so annealing is almost a necessity. Even if the thin bullseye washers have mushed down a bit, the pin certainly hasn't when it is greater than 1/16th. When you take into account that some of those old pins were steel, then the relative size-loss is even less.

Regards,
Neil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I know it's personal preference, but I would highly recommend you check out what three stacked washers looks and feels like before you pin the razor. To me, and maybe only to me, the mountain of metal sticking off the scale is just too much. But I'm sure there are others that love the effect. You may not know till you handle it in person, though.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BKratchmer

My own experience is that three stacked washers are significantly taller than a vintage 'bullseye' washer...

It's all personal preference, but there is definitely a marked difference between the two.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hmmmm That's odd Dylan because I have found them to be almost identical to the mountain of metal that sticks out from the side of a Vintage W&B, but even then, there is more difference because the Vintage washers has been mashed down somewhat over the years but the triple stack hasn't ...I think they are still within 100th of an inch though if you measured, even inaccuratly... In fact that was what the triple stack was designed to emulate,, Or when you take the time to spin yer own, again designed to copy the old Bullseye/Beehive washers I am sure that some would disagree but that's just me...
Now if you just like the look of the old vintage washers that would be a personal preference in itself...

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Reality -vs- Perception

When you imply and then state that something is so, then you have to realize that some of us are OCD and we are going to take the time and actually measure them... :dropjaw:

Old W&B #1 with the Bullseye washers overall width = .438 width of scales .359 height of both washers .079
Old W&B #2 with the Bullseye washers overall width = .397 width of scales ..323 height of both washers .074


Measurements of 4 new Customs with Tri-Stacks

.481 oaw - .389 wos = height of both washers .092
.471 oaw - .378 wos = height of both washers .093
.492 oaw - .389 wos = height of both washers .103
.510 oaw - .415 wos = Height of both washers .095

Average height of both washers = .095 compared to the height of the W&B oldies .077 the overall difference = 0.018 /2

Comes out to be about 9/1000ths of one inch, so less than the 1/100th that I said it was...

Now granted I only had 2 W&B to measure and those razors are over 100 years old so the washers/pins are probably a bit beat on, but I would still stand on the "about 1/100th difference"... Even though a newer/less used W&B might show even less difference… To give this measurement some perspective, the paper in my printer is 7/1000th

See I actually did this about 4 years ago, to make sure that they were at least close, because to my eyes the TriStacks "looked" higher too, but I didn't trust my eyes I got out the calipers and checked that the oaw was coming up close.... So yes there is no real difference other than personal preference, and the "Mountains of Washers" on the sides of the razor are indeed about the same height, just the perception is different...

*I measured the wedge side of all razors, to lessen the effect of the tightening of the pins on the pivot side. These measurements relate to the Microfastener washers Brass #0W, #0, and SS #0, that most of us use.. They also are comparing mounted washers which is what really counts *....

Attachment 69693

I don't deal well with inches. Let's do percentages (for comparison). From my math the newer washers are something like 23% thicker than the old ones. Someone with a brain please double-check that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Micro Fasteners - Hobbyists Source - Locknuts - Washers - Machine Screws - Fasteners - Rivets - Wood Screws

order
#0W Brass
#0 SS
#0 Brass

You have to stack these correctly also to get the Beehive effect, dump a few of the washers on your workbench, note that one side is flat, and one side is rounded,,, Flat side goes toward the scale rounded side goes up...

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i know this may be a silly question, but the #0 Brass and #0 SS will be exactly the same except the color/metal, correct? for some reason I thought the width was different on all three...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryanjewell

i know this may be a silly question, but the #0 Brass and #0 SS will be exactly the same except the color/metal, correct? for some reason I thought the width was different on all three...

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Width is different on all 3. The SS #0 is slightly wider than the brass #0.
Not meaning to confuse things but there is also a narrow #0 SS which is less wide than the brass #0.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Width is different on all 3. The SS #0 is slightly wider than the brass #0.
Not meaning to confuse things but there is also a narrow #0 SS which is less wide than the brass #0.

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And the washers from Fastener Express, which is another great place to get washers, are all different OD's as well. They run much smaller - more like vintage washers.

Thanks for the pic Glen. I'd never seen nor heard of triple stacked washers. I really was picturing a "mountain of metal" jutting out both sides. Looked terrible in my mind's eye. lol.

This was a while ago, but does anyone have any original W&B triple washers they're willing to part with? I'm short one for a restoration.

Quite a few, I save everything that isn't absolute trash :rofl2:... Measure the ones you have as there are two different diameters, I have both, then PM me with an address and I send ya some...

PS: Gents that restore, reading this, Tuesday Nights 8 pm EST in the chat room is a great place to discuss stuff like this