W&B Near Wedge - small chips appearing during honing

I'm having some problems honing a recently restored W&B. It came up reasonably well, however during honing I noticed that small chips started appeared on the edge. I kept going and just about removed the first chip and another small chip near the location of the first appeared. The blade is fairly straight very small twist down the length of the blade.
I have had some honing experience honing with a couple of new razors with nice straight blades, I was thinking that it might be my technique.
I am using a norton 4k/8k.

I would post pics of the chips but they are so small that they are not showing up ont he photos.

Any advice would be great.

Stu

Stu,

Check back a couple pages, maybe only one, in the honing section. There's another fellow with the same affliction.

I have a big ol' W and B wedge that does not like synthetics. When i've tried to do the 4/8 norton on it, i have ended up with severe chipping. After the bevel was set, the coticule took it to a shaving edge in about 30 minutes.

Maybe your lady doesn't like synthetics either?

I agree about the synthetics. Old sheffields don't seem to like them and the higher the grit, the worse the problem gets.

I definitely wouldn't recommend a 30k Shapton on a sheffield!

You should be ok up to 8k IME but beyond that is probably pushing it. I do my wedges on 1/4/8k Shaptons and then finish on a natural stone.

That said there are always exceptions and Maxi's advice could see you right. If you don't have other stones or don't want to sink the cash into more stones then I'd say send it out to a pro.

One way or the other you do need to change something. If what you're doing isn't working, change the stone, change the stroke, use slurry, stop using slurry, use fewer strokes or use tape and see if any of that makes a difference.

Good luck and keep us posted! :)

See here for my groan (also with a Wade & Butcher):

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...chips-why.html

That razor is still in my "to-do" pile.

I found that using _very light_ pressure caused fewer chips. But that left me wondering:

. . . If the steel won't stand up to normal honing pressure, how will it react when
. . . it hits my beard?

Charles

Gosh how to word this correctly :) I agree :) sorta

I tend to head to my Coticule almost exclusively when finishing Sheffield steel too, -BUT- I don't even want to count the razors that were honed on my Norton's before I ever touched a Coticule... :)

The simple test is to use the Norton 8k exactly like a Coticule finisher, make a light slurry and do about 20 laps then dilute out to clear water on the next 20 and finally to get the most out of the edge let the N8k go to almost dry with 15-20 very light, very slow, very perfect X laps... See if that clears up the problem...

Thanks all for the suggestions to date, much appreciated.

I tried a few things last night on the Norton, considering it is all I have at this point, and the ended up with a light slurry for the 4k and 8k sides. This has fixed the chipping problem. However it has become evident that the blade is slightly twisted which is making it really tricky for a newb like myself to get a good bevel set. I set the bevel in small sections of blade and eventually ended up with a pretty eve bevel along the length of the blade. I then used light X strokes at 30° to 40° angle on the 4k and 8k sides. All this being said, I cannot seem to get an even remotely sharp edge on the blade :shrug:.
I dont have a slurry stone at the moment and as such I have been using a dressed block of timber with 360 grit wet and dry sand paper to create a slurry. Would this be causing me problems? I am currently putting my failure down to poor technique. The razor didn't cost me all that much otherwise I would send it down to onimaru55 in Sydney to check out, not sure its worth the $$.

Stu

Here are some vids..

The Norton Vid and the Smiling Wedge Vid are the ones that should help you... That 45 degree heel forward stroke should take care of your twist problem and it explains the Rocking X also IIRC...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...-gssixgun.html

man is that a familiar story on the W&B's. I've had 2 with chips so far. It's the only razor I've seen this happen in my limited experience. But rest assured, you are not the first with this issue.. :(

Good luck!

Not to confirm any beliefs about wedges but the last 'Lather Well' W&B I did had very 'delicate' steel but I got the bevel set with the Shap GS's after the DMT's made it look like a Spyderco edge. Try what Glen suggests & see how ya go. If you get no joy just send it south & I can have a go but if you can get past the chipping it should be a winner.

Also I'd be uncomfortable re using 360 wetndri for slurry . Lapping yes, slurry ... Risky.
Try again just with clean stones maybe

I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, much appreciated.

I purchased a Chinese '12k' today as well as a little nagura stone to create a slurry.

I lapped the norton 4k/8k and the new Chinese stone.

Worked back through the 4k with a light slurry using the 45 degree strokes as per Glen's vids using the progression for the smiling blade with the 4k then 8k norton, except using the 12k Chinese instead of the coticule as a finisher.

Checked the blade on my arm hair before stropping it, hairs popping off everywhere.

Just stropped it up on my 'Roo strop from MickR, and it looks right to have a shave with.

I will post on how that goes tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Got my fingers crossed for ya !!!

Shave update........
Good news and bad news. She shaves but shes a bit rough, had to finish with the Dovo. Will have to bit of work to get the edge where it needs to be but I am confident that it will get there in the end.

Thanks again all.

Stu

Good on ya Stu! Sounds like you're close. I always find a loupe or microscope helps me see what's going on at the edge.
Sometimes a few light strokes on a CrO pasted paddle helps with those critters but hang in there.
If you use the synthetic Nagura on the Chinese stone be ultra light when rubbing, you don't want large chunks breaking off & scratching things up in the end game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Str8Raz0r

I'm having some problems honing a recently restored W&B. It came up reasonably well, however during honing I noticed that small chips started appeared on the edge. I kept going and just about removed the first chip and another small chip near the location of the first appeared.
...snip...

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Difficult to tell... try a couple layers of tape on the spine
and a lighter touch. It is possible that modern hones are trying to place too
fine an edge on the steel. Older steel might have a soft
spine and hard as heck edge steel. Over time the angle could
have closed too much with spine wear. Steel razor edges run
from 12 degrees to 18 and knives as much as 30 degrees. Measuring
the edge angle can be inaccurate but a couple layers of tape and
a small secondary bevel might be diagnostic and it is easy to try.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Difficult to tell... try a couple layers of tape on the spine
and a lighter touch. It is possible that modern hones are trying to place too
fine an edge on the steel. Older steel might have a soft
spine and hard as heck edge steel. Over time the angle could
have closed too much with spine wear. Steel razor edges run
from 12 degrees to 18 and knives as much as 30 degrees. Measuring
the edge angle can be inaccurate but a couple layers of tape and
a small secondary bevel might be diagnostic and it is easy to try.

---

I have been using two layers of tape already, is it possible that I should only have one? I haven't given Oz's idea of using a CrO paddle yet. Might grab my pasted balsa strop and give it a go.

You really should get a close up look of the edge. Even if you don't know how it should look you will at least "see" the edge giving you the current results. Then look again after any correction to see what's changed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

You really should get a close up look of the edge. Even if you don't know how it should look you will at least "see" the edge giving you the current results. Then look again after any correction to see what's changed.

---

Okay, will do. Where would I pick up a loupe?

I just ordered one of these Uxcell Products Search
but they have a variety of cheap ones that work ok. Don't worry about the power so much 8-10x is fine & large lenses are good, 30-35 mm.

This was my first from them & served me well. It's only 8X but still tells you a lot when used correctly
Buy Cheap Optical Dual Lens Magnifier Magnifying Glass, Jewrly Loupe

[QUOTE=onimaru55;796707]I just ordered one of these Uxcell Products Search
but they have a variety of cheap ones that work ok. Don't worry about the power so much 8-10x is fine & large lenses are good, 30-35 mm.

Just ordered one, thanks.

Stu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Str8Raz0r

I have been using two layers of tape already, is it possible that I should only have one? I haven't given Oz's idea of using a CrO paddle yet. Might grab my pasted balsa strop and give it a go.

---

Tape lifts and effectively concentrates the honing effect only on the edge.
If you remove the tape you will need to reset the bevel. One rule of thumb
I have not yet verified is that a layer of tape is 3/4 of a degree. Two layers
is quite a bit no mater the number.

Go with the balsa hone/strop and see what that does. A magnification
glass and a bright light inspection can tell a lot. I often walk to an open
window to get "better" light.