Adventures in Tung Oil

Printable View

06-13-2011, 04:28 AM
Nphocus

Adventures in Tung Oil

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a...2022.42.57.jpg

More pics of the process:
https://picasaweb.google.com/nphocus...uresInTungOil#

I really am enjoying the organic nature of the tung oil. No fumes. No gloves required. Good feel to it. These have had the grains filled - I believe - by using 400 grit sand paper on a foam block and a good amount of tung oil applied to the work and sand paper. I sanded all surfaces using the same portion of sand paper and sure enough saw a slurry come up in/with the oil and I just worked that in and around all sides and surfaces. That pic is two halves of the scales temporarily bonded together with rubber cement. I'm kind of concerned about them actually being too thin because of all of the sanding I've been doing to them. That's really ironic because I look at my first pair of scales and think they're too thick! Maybe by the third go around I'll have the thickness and definitely the sanding procedure down pat.

That darn it to heck splintery black palm wood on the left is now buttery smooth. I think the first round of tung oil raised the grain and the subsequent sanding and filling has allowed me to smooth it all out pretty well. I would actually like to try a red cherry stain on that black palm wood and see how that pops. When fresh cut, the grain is very bright and striking and would look great as is with just some clear finish. The tung oil really darkened it up.

I am not sure if I'm going to leave these guys at the 400 grit finish or take them up the scale of micromesh to 12,000. If I do, should I keep working the oil in with a slurry in each grit - 12 or so grits to get to 12k - or should I just stop with the oil and work it just like a normal piece of unfinished wood? I do plan on doing a final sealing and buffing coat or ren wax, if that makes a difference.

Thanks,

Bobby
06-13-2011, 04:30 AM
TwistedOak

i've used tung oil as well but mine doesn't come out glossy like yours. What steps do you take to get that effect?
06-13-2011, 04:35 AM
Nphocus

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedOak

i've used tung oil as well but mine doesn't come out glossy like yours. What steps do you take to get that effect?

My bad, for the confusion. That's the last pic from this weekend's work. It's actually still wet with tung oil. I'm leaving it to soak in over night. I intend to wipe it down when I'm ready to progress further with the finish.

I really posted this in hopes that someone would be familiar with how to get a nice gloss or at least semi-gloss finish with tung oil and "hopefully" some other relatively non-toxic solution. If you check the link, it will show the different phases I went thru after picking up the fresh cut wood from my local carpenter.
06-13-2011, 10:49 AM
Maxi

With the Tung oil, you are most likely going to have an end result that is flat or semi-gloss. Polymerized Tung Oils can give you a higher gloss finish, but like our Max has said a number of times....Polymerized Tung Oils often do not contain tung oil at all, or very little.

The advantage to tung oil is that if you cut the first coat, it does a magnificent job of penetrating the wood and results in a product that is very resistant to water.

After your last coat (maybe #4), I would suggest sanding at a very fine grit such as 2000. I've never used micro mesh and gone to 12000, but that doesn't mean that you can't do it. Try sanding it out at 2000 and 2500 and then buffing it. You may like the wood at that point. If you don't, as an experiment continue to go further....

....and then post your results so we can all learn a bit from your process and experience.

Hope this helps a bit.
06-13-2011, 12:40 PM
Sasquatch

Looking good! I've yet to try tung oil but when I do knives I soak them in boiled linseed oil or Danish oil for 24 hours. Once dry I buff them up with compound. I've been tempted to try ca glue and sanding/buffing but it looks time consuming and dirty in comparison to using oils. Looking forward to seeing the final results you get!
06-13-2011, 12:57 PM
ScottGoodman

So you had to go ahead and try the Black palm huh? I found it was a PITA, but once you are successful with making a set out of it they are great looking! Looking good so far. If you are looking for a bit more sheen without the full "gloss", you might try rubbing a couple coats of Renaissance Wax over the tung oil finish after a light sanding of 2K. I am personally not a fan of high gloss on wood scales...but of course that's just one of the many opinions here.

BTW...should get to dance with the PHIG today or tomorrow for the first time...
06-13-2011, 01:04 PM
Nphocus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Looking good! I've yet to try tung oil but when I do knives I soak them in boiled linseed oil or Danish oil for 24 hours. Once dry I buff them up with compound. I've been tempted to try ca glue and sanding/buffing but it looks time consuming and dirty in comparison to using oils. Looking forward to seeing the final results you get!

I work in a Homeshop, so the non-noxious nature of the tung oil really appeals to me. I have buffing compound and was wondering the exact same thing. What color or combination of compound do you use? Wouldn't the compound color the wood?

The oil is plenty dirty too, at least the grain filling is. Oddly, I find it to be the most satisfying. Since I work in my home with little to no ventilation, I try to keep the fumes and toxic chemicals to a bare minimum. The long thin scale on the right was finished from raw with just tung oil and 400 grit sand paper. One additional selling point is that the oil keeps the dust to a minimum.
06-13-2011, 01:24 PM
Nphocus

Quote:

Originally Posted by shooter74743

So you had to go ahead and try the Black palm huh? I found it was a PITA, but once you are successful with making a set out of it they are great looking! Looking good so far. If you are looking for a bit more sheen without the full "gloss", you might try rubbing a couple coats of Renaissance Wax over the tung oil finish after a light sanding of 2K. I am personally not a fan of high gloss on wood scales...but of course that's just one of the many opinions here.

BTW...should get to dance with the PHIG today or tomorrow for the first time...

Black palm is by and far the most miserable material to work with that I've ever come across. Even my carpenter had some choice words for me regarding cutting the black palm and the next two days he spent picking splinters out... The black palm is like working with an old dry splinter filled sponge. It absorbs finish very readily, especially considering that I didn't dilute my tung oil and it darkened and stayed dark.

The one nice thing about adding the tung oil and letting it set up first before cutting into the material is the tung seems to give it more cohesiveness. It will still splinter, but it's a good bit less apt to. With just the plain palm wood, when you sand it, the light parts are softer and the black parts are much harder, so just sanding nets you a very interesting texture. The problem that I had, is that even with very good sanding it still had snags and it would still splinter.
06-13-2011, 01:32 PM
Nphocus

cyanoacrylate

cyanoacrylate

What brand and how much are you guys using to finish 1 set of scales? I see CA thrown around, but I wonder if everyone is just using plain old super glue from the grocery store or if there is a particular Loctite or 3M brand that everyone is partial to.

Can/has anyone ever used CA on top of tung oil? I mean, just wiping down the surface with acetone and then applying the CA?

What I'm experimenting with doing is pre-finishing my scale material before I cut the scales. I'm curious how far you can go into the finishing process and then cut out your scales, do some touch up sanding or final sanding, and then whatever coating and sealing process.
06-13-2011, 01:50 PM
ScottGoodman

I have used plain old superglue and the large bottle stuff available at hobbylobby. Both have worked for me. Secondly it works well for a quick laceration...don't ask!
06-13-2011, 02:01 PM
Nphocus

Quote:

Originally Posted by shooter74743

I have used plain old superglue and the large bottle stuff available at hobbylobby. Both have worked for me. Secondly it works well for a quick laceration...don't ask!

I read that thread!!!! and yes, it also burns like the dickens... don't ask!

I'm searching google right now for a good sized supply. Something like an 8 ounce bottle. I'm seeing where they sell it in that size in thin and extra thin. I'm not seeing anything that says it's normal CA though. I do see extra thick though. I probably have some of this stuff sitting in the top of a closet along with a bottle of spray hardener. As I recall though, using the hardener/accelerent on the CA would cause it to put of a good amount of heat and made it cure almost instantly. I also recall that too much accelerent would cause hazing on the finish.

I really want to hear your thoughts on that PHIG btw, please keep me in the loop on your thoughts.
06-13-2011, 03:29 PM
Sasquatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nphocus

I work in a Homeshop, so the non-noxious nature of the tung oil really appeals to me. I have buffing compound and was wondering the exact same thing. What color or combination of compound do you use? Wouldn't the compound color the wood?

The oil is plenty dirty too, at least the grain filling is. Oddly, I find it to be the most satisfying. Since I work in my home with little to no ventilation, I try to keep the fumes and toxic chemicals to a bare minimum. The long thin scale on the right was finished from raw with just tung oil and 400 grit sand paper. One additional selling point is that the oil keeps the dust to a minimum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nphocus

cyanoacrylate

What brand and how much are you guys using to finish 1 set of scales? I see CA thrown around, but I wonder if everyone is just using plain old super glue from the grocery store or if there is a particular Loctite or 3M brand that everyone is partial to.

Can/has anyone ever used CA on top of tung oil? I mean, just wiping down the surface with acetone and then applying the CA?

What I'm experimenting with doing is pre-finishing my scale material before I cut the scales. I'm curious how far you can go into the finishing process and then cut out your scales, do some touch up sanding or final sanding, and then whatever coating and sealing process.

When I do knives I go through all the grits hand sanding to finest grit then soak in oil for 24 hours without sanding after. I just cut the top off a big beer can and leave the oil in as rags soaked in linseed oil are supposedly prone to catching on fire if left in sunlight. If forms a nice skin after months of being left out that's strangely satisfying to break with a new knife each time.

One thing to keep in mind is boiled linseed oil will slightly darken light woods but raw linseed oil won't. Once dry I usually go straight to a very fine white finishing compound but I have used black and red compounds first in the past. The worst case scenario I get is a black film that builds up in places on the tang and pins that wipes off easily and still leaves a nice finish underneath. I haven't had a light wood change colour due to compounds as a 24 hour soak must fill the grains in the wood with oil preventing it taking on anything apart from on the surface. I hope that's the case anyway as I make knives for outdoor use and I soak them to avoid rusting the carbon tangs under the scales and liners.

CA glue has come in real handy when working with woods that have small cracks or pockets within the grain you sometimes find after the final shaping of scales. Instead of pulling off the scales and binning them you can fill all these imperfections with thin CA glue. For this I use the cheapest, thinnest poundshop CA glue I can find. Buffs up a treat after a final sanding and soak. I've heard of knifemakers using thin CA glue to effectively stabilise entire scales but I've never tried it myself as it sounds a real messy experience. The time involved makes me prefer to just buy stabilised scales if that's what I'm after as time is money to a degree.

I could well be wrong here and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am but I wouldn't have thought you could use the CA on top of tung oil as the wood grain won't absorb the glue properly. Maybe it's worth a try though, you never know! You could be onto something. I only make knives as a hobby and these are just my experiences. I'm far from an authority on the subject, just thought I'd share my experiences, most of what I've learned comes from mistakes!

Post some pics of the finished scales if you can as I'm relatively new to redoing straight razors and looking forward to comparing results and seeing your finish...
06-14-2011, 04:24 PM
skipnord

Rockler sells CA in 3 stages, thin, medium and thick. One of our members posted that he uses a thin first to seal the wood, and then uses medium for the rest of his coats. He said that off the shelf super glue is thin, and Gorilla CA is medium. I just have Rockler medium, and it has worked ok, although I will try thin for my first coat the next time I do a CA finish.
06-16-2011, 09:32 PM
tumtatty

Ca works well on top of tung oil. I use medium viscosity ca glue. Im sure any brand will work fine.
+1 on black palm being a devilish wood to work with!!
06-16-2011, 11:28 PM
Nphocus

Quote:

Originally Posted by tumtatty

Ca works well on top of tung oil. I use medium viscosity ca glue. Im sure any brand will work fine.
+1 on black palm being a devilish wood to work with!!

How do you prep it before you apply the CA?
06-17-2011, 12:55 AM
onimaru55

1 Attachment(s)

This is the process I use for oil finishing. It actually uses very little oil & you put the lid back on the tin after the grain filling.
http://www.organoil.com.au/woodcraft/printable.html
Too much oil will give a dark dull finish. Sand dry to 3000 grit if you can get it or an equivalent in Micromesh after grain filling & you get a finish that does this at the right angle but has no plastic looking coating. When viewed front on the timber looks just like ... timber :)
06-17-2011, 01:04 AM
Nphocus

Thank you for the VERY useful link. I'm going to whip out the dremel and try some high speed burnishing. Pics if it's not a disaster, later!
06-17-2011, 01:18 AM
onimaru55

Never tried the dremel. Hope to see pics :)
06-17-2011, 02:41 AM
tumtatty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nphocus

How do you prep it before you apply the CA?

I apply the finish I want then, after it dries, I begin with the CA. I have been using an oil based finish with polyurethane (Arm-R-Seal by General Finishes). Then follow the CA directions in the wiki.
06-17-2011, 08:30 AM
Sasquatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by tumtatty

Ca works well on top of tung oil. I use medium viscosity ca glue. Im sure any brand will work fine.
+1 on black palm being a devilish wood to work with!!

Good to know that for future referance, many thanks! Do you think it would be the same for linseed oil and similar then?
06-17-2011, 10:46 AM
Maxi

Quote:

Originally Posted by tumtatty

I apply the finish I want then, after it dries, I begin with the CA. I have been using an oil based finish with polyurethane (Arm-R-Seal by General Finishes). Then follow the CA directions in the wiki.

Tumtatty,

Are you having any bonding issues between your first coat of CA and the oil based finish of the Tung Oil? How are you circumventing this?
06-17-2011, 10:43 PM
tumtatty

I haven't had any issues (at least that I'm aware of). The CA sticks to anything as far as I can tell. I just make sure the oil has dried. I haven't sanded or prepped the surface at all.
06-17-2011, 10:44 PM
tumtatty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Good to know that for future referance, many thanks! Do you think it would be the same for linseed oil and similar then?

I use Boiled Linseed Oil on my gunstocks, but haven't tried it on scales or brush handles yet. I would imagine that BLO is easier to work with than tung oil so I'd guess there would be no issues.
06-18-2011, 03:03 AM
Nphocus

Update

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3...2021.37.10.jpg
This is after a solid week of drying. I didn't touch them since the pic at the beginning of the post was taken. I would describe the finish as satin and the feel is still oily.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I...2022.31.20.jpg

This is after wiping off excess oil, buffing with green rouge on high(8) on a dremel with the smallest circular felt bobs, and then finishing with renaissance wax on a fresh felt bob. The pic really doesn't do the finish justice. It looks like a deep hard waxed floor and the feel is smooth with no oily residue. I'm typing this in the dark on my laptop and I can reach over and feel the scales and the difference between the unfinished and the finished is easily noticable... very smooth, no satin. It almost feels like hand worn.

Tomorrow, I'm going to take one of the other scales and use micromesh on a foam block and sand it from 1500 up thru 12,000 and post results from that. As it is, the finish from the green rouge and ren wax is very satisfying. Time will tell how the tung oil finish holds up.

I'm happy enough with the finish on the scales that If the wedge and pinning goes as well, I'll be sending one set out to someone special here at SRP that has mentored me and brought me very far, very quickly. The second set will go to someone else that I'm trying to do the same too. That damn black palm might just rot in hell... or just rot.

More pics, hopefully showing the contrast from the unfinished tung oil and 20 minutes of rouge and wax.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-U...2022.31.33.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-b...2022.32.33.jpg
06-18-2011, 03:24 AM
Nphocus

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y...0+22.37.20.jpg
Oh, in case you all are interested, this is the original material after significant sanding. The raw ends are where I had it clamped down to my desk and didn't sand it. Those finishes are raw material sanded from 60 grit thru 12,000 grit. Even though the black palm wood looks smooth, it is actually still HIGHLY textured. The black spots are harder and slightly raised versus the light spots which are softer and hence sanded down faster. It's a not unpleasant texture. I will be doing another set just like this and trying a CA finish. That would look very nice under glass. The other wood just looks darn good no matter what.